The majority of this episode focuses on spiritual gifts. While exploring why God gives his children spiritual gifts, we make comparisons with the Greek heroes, namely Perseus. We also journey into the word choice found in D&C 46. Along this path, we ask why the Lord uses the words ‘seduced’ and ‘lust’ when he talks about being deceived?
Transcript:
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign welcome to the weekly Deep Dive Podcast on the Add On Education Network. The podcast where we explore the weekly Come Follow me discussion and try to add a little insight and unique perspective.
I am your host Jason Lloyd, here with my friend and the show’s producer, Nate Pyfer.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: What is up?
[00:00:30] Speaker A: Hey Nate, how are you doing?
[00:00:33] Speaker B: I’m pretty much just living the dream every day of my life.
[00:00:35] Speaker A: Hey, that’s a good thing to be doing. Yeah, excellent. Well, before we dive into Doctrine and Covenants, this is going to be sections 46, 48.
But right at the tail end of last week’s discussion, there was a lot of cool things that we were talking about in Doctrine of covenants, section 45 in regards to prophecies, end times. And what we didn’t get into were some of the future things when Christ comes again.
And as we were kind of discussing some of this content after the show, after we were done recording, we got on the subject of Zion being the city where it says that brother will be lifting up sword against brother. I just wanted to touch on a few things that we talked about there real quick and then move into today’s episode.
But it says if you do not want to lift up your sword against your brother, you would have to flee to Zion.
And they call Zion specifically a city of refuge. And I thought that was so interesting they would use that language, especially in light of a couple episodes back when we were talking about the law of God. And if you accidentally committed murder in the Old Testament, you could flee to these cities of refuge.
In my mind, I was thinking about this, the idea that if you take one foot and step outside of Zion, or excuse me, not outside of Zion but the city of refuge, then the Redeemer of Blood had a legal right to kill you. So you had to stay within the confines of the city until the high priest died to stay alive or to avoid being legally killed for accidentally murdering somebody. And to have Zion being described as a city of refuge kind of struck me as interesting.
I was thinking about almost from a perspective, if the world was becoming violent enough, that brother was lifting up sword against brother, and anyone who did not want to fight had to fight flee to Zion.
Would simply stepping outside of Zion mean you risk taking your life into your hands, that someone would kill you? If I remember right, as I brought that up to you, Nate, you took this much deeper than where I was going with this on a spiritual perspective to say perhaps this city of refuge, this idea that it’s not so much a physical place or a membership in the church as much as this Zion, this holiness, the Zion of the pure in heart. And that when we step away from that Gospel, when we step away from that Christ, or maybe we fall away. And help me out if I’m saying this wrong, but as we exit the safety of Zion, that holiness, that holy city, we put ourselves at great spiritual risk of those who are outside of the borders of Zion, ready at a moment’s notice to slay us and, I don’t know, put our spiritual lives at risk. Is that.
[00:03:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. When I was kind of just looking at some of the definitions of Zion, one of them was holy place. And, you know, we’re taught to stand in holy places and for spiritual safety.
But it made me start thinking, so if Christ has already died for us, or the high priest in this case, we are free from a certain punishment. Right. Which made me think, oh, well, then. Well, then what is. How would that still apply to kind of modern.
Modern times or our times? And it’s. It still worked for me. It still made sense. You know, Christ died and was resurrected. And we are now given the gift of. We’re now free from physical death. Right. We’ve been. Have. We’ve been freed from forever laying in a grave.
What’s, I think, still important, though, to realize is that we still are doing everything we can to take advantage of the atonement and still receive freedom from spiritual death, too.
[00:04:35] Speaker A: Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, the high priest died, so we don’t have to worry so much about our physical death. We’re free in that sense.
But spiritually, what do we need to do to work out that salvation? What do we need to do to set that ledger? Right.
[00:04:48] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:04:49] Speaker A: So interesting. I’m glad. This, I don’t know, just kind of stood out to me that this, this, this idea that Zion was a city of refuge, which, you know, yeah, it’s a place of refuge, but understanding that that context of what it meant in the Old Testament kind of gave it new life. And I’m glad we kind of had that discussion.
[00:05:06] Speaker B: Yep. Awesome.
[00:05:08] Speaker A: Okay, in today’s lesson, we’re going to be going into spiritual gifts, and we’re covering Doctrine and covenants, section 46, 48, but mostly 46. As we look at the content that’s in here.
[00:05:18] Speaker B: Did you. Did you notice anybody giving their children the gift of flight as a spiritual gift? Like get a baby blessing?
[00:05:25] Speaker A: No, no, I did not see any gifts.
[00:05:27] Speaker B: Whatever, man.
[00:05:28] Speaker A: Nor did I see godlike strength and devilishly good looks.
[00:05:32] Speaker B: That one’s great. That One’s fantastic.
[00:05:35] Speaker A: So.
[00:05:36] Speaker B: True story, though.
[00:05:37] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, can I have a true.
[00:05:39] Speaker B: Can I give you a true story real quick?
[00:05:40] Speaker A: Please do.
[00:05:42] Speaker B: I hate derailing these things so early on, but I kind of. I kind of don’t hate it that much either. Like, let’s just go for it.
[00:05:48] Speaker A: It puts a smile on my face.
[00:05:49] Speaker B: It was. It was amazing. So when. When I was a kid, it was me and my two sisters for a long time. And then When I was 10, my brother Kyle was born.
And when I was 12, my brother Lane was born, the youngest. So there’s like, a pretty big age gap between them. So I was fully aware enough, like, for their baby blessings.
And I remember in my youngest brother Lane’s, my dad blessed him that he would be, like, strong of stature. And it was funny because he had even said he was like, hey, at work one time, and I hope I’m telling a story right. He’s like, I was looking at our family picture and, like, I could just tell that there was still somebody there that needed to be in our family. But it was crazy because he was like, and it’s a boy, and he’s gonna be. He’s gonna be like. He’s gonna be a strong, like, stout, like, dude.
And we were all like, bone rail.
You know what I mean? Like, short. I wasn’t short, but, like, my sisters aren’t super tall, and neither are my parents or whatever. And we’re like, man, you’re.
[00:06:49] Speaker A: You’re.
[00:06:49] Speaker B: You know. And he’s like, yeah, he’s gonna be strong. He’s gonna be tall. He’s. He’s like, you know, he might end up being, like, the tallest of all of you or whatever. So this is pre birth, by the way. This is pre. This is pre conception. This is like, we have. We already have a baby that just kind of got here not too long ago with my brother Kyle. But Lane was born, was a dude and is as tall as I am and could beat me up at any given moment if he wanted to. But it was crazy because even at his blessing, he reiterated it, and he was just like, you’re going to be a big dude. Like, you’re going to be. You’re going to be a strong guy. Totally worked out.
[00:07:25] Speaker A: That’s pretty cool.
[00:07:26] Speaker B: So they do work. I wish you would have given me the gift of flight.
[00:07:31] Speaker A: We all wish we had the gift of flight.
All right, so we’re going to start this off. Doctrine and Covenants, Section 46, Verse 1.
And right off the bat, it says something a Little bit interesting here. It says that the revelation and what’s written down here. So as we start talking about these spiritual blessings and what they’re for, the Lord says that they are for your profit and learning.
And profit here spelled with an F. Right.
[00:08:00] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:08:01] Speaker A: And I find the word choice here fascinating because profit is something that we associate with money.
And it’s interesting to me because we’re talking about these gifts, and he says it’s going to be for your profit. But then you look in the New Testament when he’s talking about talents, which is profit. And he’s saying this is a financial denomination of how much money we are giving you to do something with it. And yet we take that financial amount and we change its meaning to mean gifts or talents.
And so.
[00:08:38] Speaker B: Which isn’t right to me.
[00:08:40] Speaker A: It might not seem right, but it’s strange how they’re linked. Like, we talk about these spiritual gifts in terms of profit, but then we also talk about those talents in terms of. And maybe where does the word talents even come from? I mean, is it these gifts that are there for our profit?
[00:08:58] Speaker B: I mean, real quick, we’ve talked about this before, but I’m going to put my flag down and say, please do. The parable of the talents is not about.
God gave you the gift of singing, so if you don’t sing in the choir, you’re squandering that talent he gave you.
That’s a financial parable.
I’m just going to put. I’m putting my flag down on that. And if anybody. Look, if anybody out there wants to argue about this with me, I’m not going to do it right now because I’m not going to totally derail this thing. But I’m here. You know the email address. And I would love to talk about this with you. I would love to help convince you how correct I am about this.
[00:09:33] Speaker A: Hi, @weeklydeepdive.com yep.
[00:09:37] Speaker B: Hi@weeklydeepdive.com and you can just, you can, you can. Nate, at the, at the top of the email, if you really, if you really want to go with me about this, this is not about. God gave you the gift of singing. And so if you don’t sing loud in primary, you’re squandering the talents he gave you. No, a talent is a piece of money, and this is a financial parable.
And I would love to get into that later, but I am not going to do this to you right now, Jason.
[00:10:03] Speaker A: So Nate has drawn a line in the sand.
[00:10:05] Speaker B: I am drawing a line in the.
[00:10:06] Speaker A: Sand that wanted to pick that up.
So I do find the word choice interesting, though. And so I did look up the etymology of profit, and profit meant betterment. Like, it was this idea for improvement.
And particularly it looked like in the 1300s, the word prophet was more strictly in the spiritual sense. This idea that you are bettering yourself. And somewhere along the line, this word got associated not with self improvement, but with, I guess, financial improvement. This idea maybe that your wealth or your worth was determined through financial.
So it is kind of interesting, the history of this word, where it comes from. And I find it kind of fascinating that we tend to associate, or at least many people, with the exception of Nate, tend to associate, this idea of talents and profits.
[00:11:03] Speaker B: Talents are talents, too.
[00:11:04] Speaker A: Money versus look, in that parable.
[00:11:07] Speaker B: It’s not. That’s all I’m saying. In that parable, a talent is a piece of money.
Look, I’m not saying that we don’t have talents, man.
Look, I’m not saying that you shouldn’t.
[00:11:17] Speaker A: Sing loud in primary, but if you sing really well, a lot of times that does lead to profit and talents in a different sense.
[00:11:25] Speaker B: Maybe me, because my voice is awesome.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: Yeah. I’ve never made any money singing.
[00:11:33] Speaker B: It’s funny when you brought that up, though, I was just like, oh, hey, I do really enjoy making music. And luckily that also helps pay the bills. It’s like, dude, I get to use my talents for money.
[00:11:43] Speaker A: You do. Boom, baby.
It is interesting how they’re connected or not connected, however you want to look at that. But I just find the word choice interesting. And that’s something that’s going to be a kind of a common theme here. At least we’re going to see word choice play another role as we kind of skip forward through this. So in verse two, it says, but notwithstanding those things which are written, it always has been given to the elders of my church from the beginning and ever shall be to conduct all meetings as they are directed and guided by the Holy Spirit. Okay, and I think that’s kind of interesting.
Notwithstanding all these things which are written, and we’re talking about what’s written, we’re going to be talking about these spiritual gifts and who gets spiritual gifts. And the point is, everyone gets spiritual gifts. And when they’re saying everyone gets it, he says, but notwithstanding everybody gets spiritual gifts, it has always been given to the elders of my church from the beginning and ever shall be to conduct all meetings as they are directed and guided by the Spirit. And they’re kind of. The Lord is prefacing that even before he dives into the gift, I find it kind of interesting.
One does not necessarily relate to the other.
Just because the elders may or may not be super gifted in some things or not gifted in other things, it’s irrelevant. Their responsibility or call to direct the meetings or conduct the meetings in the church is not necessarily tied to their spiritual gifts, the bountiful of it, or the lack of it, or however you want to say that. And just because somebody who’s not an elder of the church is blessed with all sorts of spiritual gifts, and there’s some crazy wonderful spiritual gifts is maybe the better word for that, doesn’t mean that they now have the right to take over the role of the elders. The Lord is saying, let me put a separation here and say that I will give you blessings, I will give you gifts. But that gift does not necessarily allow you to cross over certain lines that I’m setting from the beginning. There is an order and an organization, and I’m laying it out.
But that doesn’t mean that you don’t receive gifts.
So maybe with that, what is the purpose of the gifts? If it’s not necessarily for conducting in meetings? What is the purpose of gifts?
And I mean, going into that.
Let’s see the Lord.
[00:14:11] Speaker B: Can I throw something in here real quick?
[00:14:12] Speaker A: Please do.
[00:14:13] Speaker B: I like the idea that you, when you’re set apart for a calling, though, is that you’re given what you need to to fulfill that calling.
So you maybe you may be bringing spiritual. A spiritual gift or something that you do really well, and maybe even a talent that you’ve just cultivated, maybe you bring that into the calling with you, and that helps.
But at the same time, it’s not necessary. And something too, that I have learned the hard way is that I always. I feel like in a group of people, if I’m expected to, like, talk or say something or teach, it’s like I can kind of hold my own. But it’s interesting because sometimes we feel like we can rely on those.
Those types of, like, cultivated talents to convert or to convince people or whatever it is that we’re trying to do of things that the spirit has to do, right?
And there’s been so many times where I feel like, man, I feel like I’m explaining this awesome. And I feel like I’m doing, like, a great job of talking my way through this, yet it’s still just not landing whatsoever.
And somebody can come in and not have that same talent or the gift of gab necessarily, and can come in and just sincerely say one or two things.
And it carries so much more weight spiritually that. You know what I mean, that the Holy Ghost then anchors that. And I’m just like, oh man, that dude can’t smooth talk his way in a situation like I can. But wow, that was such a powerful thing. Thing, right?
And so it’s just when you, when you bring that up about callings and stuff like that and positions in the church and the elders in the church, that really hits. That strikes a nerve with me. Because you go, you don’t need to feel inadequate if you’re, if you’re called or asked to do something. Just like you shouldn’t feel like you can cruise your way through something too if you’re like, oh, well, I. One of my gifts is that I can do this without any preparation. You know what I mean? Like, I can just fly by the seat of my pants and whatever.
But that’s not always going to be the thing that you need to. To really magnify that calling as well. Does that make sense?
[00:16:38] Speaker A: It does.
In Doctrine and Covenants it says it a few times, right, The Lord has called the weak ones to declare his word.
And sometimes that weakness is that humility, that humble.
Maybe you don’t know what you’re doing, or maybe you don’t have a great strength for that, but you’re giving your best effort anyways and you don’t realize how you touch somebody, even if it doesn’t come natural.
And sometimes he gives people great power to be able to speak eloquently or give them a gift to where people really do feel inspired and touched. And you just never know what is going to happen. But maybe Elder Eyring said it best. He said the Lord sends his prepared children to his prepared servants.
And however that preparation is, or whatever insecurities we have, if we are still willing to open our mouth and do the best we can with whatever we are given, the Lord is going to find a way to put things in the right path and make that work.
[00:17:38] Speaker B: Love it.
[00:17:39] Speaker A: Thanks, Nate.
These next couple verses, they talk about the importance of including people and transparency. Don’t turn away people from your public meetings. Allow them to come in. Anyone who is earnestly seeking the church, allow them to come and participate in your meetings.
If somebody is a member and they are attending sacrament, but they’ve done something that they shouldn’t, don’t turn them away from your sacrament meetings, but still allow them to come in. But maybe don’t let them partake of the sacrament while they’re working through whatever that is that they’re working with, right? And the Lord is pushing this idea of transparency. This has got to be all out in the public, and we want to include and build that unity. And as he’s setting up these guidelines, I find something very interesting in verse seven.
Even though he’s kind of set up the parameters of what you should do, when you should turn people away or when you shouldn’t be turning people away, he finishes by stating, but ye are commanded in all things to ask God.
So he says, yeah, don’t turn people away, or in this case, don’t do this, but ultimately ask God. Because there might be an exception or a case where somebody you think is there in earnest or trying to do something, and you ask God and find out maybe there is a case or an example where you need to act differently or do something other than what you would to follow those guidelines.
But he says, he adds to that, do all things considering the end of your salvation, doing all things with prayer and thanksgiving. And then he adds that ye be not seduced by evil spirits.
And it’s interesting to me that when he says, do all things considering the end of your salvation.
And I think sometimes we get caught up or hung up in the moment, what we think we need to do right now or based on this situation, and he’s trying to pull us apart, pull us out of that mindset maybe, and have us look at things from a long point of view. What does this mean for your eternal salvation when you’re acting this way, when you’re making this decision? Is it because you’re trusting in the spirit you’re asking me? Or is it because you, right now don’t feel comfortable with that in the moment you’re just going to go and do something?
I don’t know. It’s kind of interesting to have him frame that discussion in context of consider the end of your salvation when you’re doing all of these things. And I’ll certainly do it with prayer and thanksgiving.
But then to finish it off by saying that you be not seduced by evil spirits.
That’s where I find his word choice interesting again, because he’s using the word seduced here.
And in verse nine it says, and not for a sign. So when he says, I give you all of these gifts, but he says, and not for a sign that they may consume it upon their lusts.
So we’ve got the seducing and these lusts that are typically terms that we associate with sexuality, with intimacy and the Lord’s using them here in terms of speaking about spiritual gifts and how you should act on them. Do not be seduced by evil. Do not act in your lusts.
And I don’t know, I just find it kind of interesting. And maybe why I find it so interesting is because the Lord has constantly, throughout the Bible, described his relationship with Israel as the relationship of a husband and a wife. And we see it through the Old Testament. We see it played out in the New Testament, the idea that we’re waiting for a wedding feast.
And when Israel goes through stages of apostasy, he describes that as cheating on him. When they start worshiping other gods, it is like being seduced or succumbing to your lusts to chase someone else. So having that language in here and kind of bridging that connection to me is kind of interesting.
And one of the cases, I think you see this symbolism all over the place, whether it is stated overtly or whether it is very subtle. And one case where it is very subtle is the story of Jericho and the crumbling walls, right?
And Israel is camped outside of the city, and they’re trying to figure out what to do to take it.
And they send two spies into the city to try to go spy it out.
And the spies representing Israel go to the house of a harlot.
And the harlot hides them because somebody says, we saw these Israelites come in here, they’re looking for them. And the harlot decides to hide them and keep them safe because she looks at Israel outside. Her house is positioned uniquely within the walls of the city. You’ve got this outer wall, this inner wall, and she’s got a window right on this outer wall. She can look out, she can see the host of Israel. And she says, you guys are going to win this war.
God’s on your side.
All I ask in return for saving you is that you save me and my family.
And so they make this agreement. She hides them so they don’t catch the spies. And she sends a little misdirection to have the people go somewhere else. And then she ties a scarlet ribbon on her window so that when Israel comes through to destroy Jericho, they’ll save that household, they’ll save that family, and then she joins Israel and becomes one of them. So here you have this representation of a Gentile, a woman who’s on the outside. She’s part of the city that’s going to be destroyed for being wicked. But she’s going to join Israel. She’s going to be coming into the fold, if you will.
And the reason why she is is because of this scarlet, this red fabric that is symbolic of the blood of Christ, that he is going to die and shed his blood, so that your sins, though they be as scarlet, they shall be white as snow. That through his atonement, these outsiders can be brought into the house of Israel. This idea that, you know what Christ said, you claim Abraham as your father, but I can raise up these stones and raise children unto Abraham, and here he’s going to do this. And where I find this interesting, you have Israel, who’s supposed to be the chosen people, the holy people. Right. And the spies that represent Israel are going to the house of a prostitute.
They’re kind of whoring away, or they’re cheating on the Lord, if you will. In this sense, that’s the imagery by going to a prostitute, where you have this prostitute, on the other hand, who is saving herself and becoming clean. And this idea, this foreshadowing, is that Israel is going to reject the Savior and when they do, the Gospel is going to go to the Gentiles and they’re going to be receiving it.
So this notion of harlots plays quite a significant role throughout the Bible and kind of foreshadowing and teaching us about what it means to be faithful, saved, to believe in Christ, to come unto Christ versus to turn away from Christ or reject Christ.
[00:24:41] Speaker B: It’s a killer.
[00:24:42] Speaker A: And, you know, we’ve maybe, maybe one last touch on this.
We’ve talked about the story of David before, and maybe this is worth discussing more next year when we get into Old Testament. But the idea that he was not where he was supposed to be when he was supposed to be there.
[00:25:01] Speaker B: He wasn’t standing in his holy place, dude.
[00:25:03] Speaker A: He was not standing in his holy place. He stepped outside of the City of Refuge.
[00:25:07] Speaker B: Exactly right.
[00:25:08] Speaker A: And it bit him. He got caught.
[00:25:09] Speaker B: That’s right.
[00:25:11] Speaker A: And when he does Bathsheba, is it bad enough that he was being unfaithful, that he had intimacy with a woman that he shouldn’t have, but then to try to hide it and to kill her husband? Right. It just goes down this path of darkness, if you will. But what I find super fascinating about this story is that through Bathsheba, Solomon’s going to be the next king. And you follow this line all the way down to Christ, and you wonder, why is Christ’s line where this is going to be the holiest and most perfect person?
Why does it start on such a sour note, if you will? This idea that David stole Another man’s wife. And this relationship with David and this woman is going to be what gives birth to the Savior Christ.
And I look at that and I say, absolutely. Isn’t that why Christ came?
This idea that we do sometimes give in to our lusts, or we do sometimes turn away from the Lord and fail to give him his recognition? Because we do turn away and apostatize in different ways?
That is the reason why Christ is going to come. I mean, it is very fitting that he is the fruit of those loins, that through that line he has come to rectify, to fix the situation and add perfection to an imperfect line and make an imperfect people perfect.
[00:26:35] Speaker B: Did the Pharisees and Sadducees, did they have an idea of Jesus lineage? Or do you not think so?
[00:26:44] Speaker A: That’s a good question.
[00:26:46] Speaker B: I sometimes wonder if that might have even played into some of the reasons why it would just be hard to accept that this person was, you know, the Savior.
[00:26:56] Speaker A: Well, in two of the Gospels, they start by giving his lineage right up front at the beginning. Right. And I think it was a point of pride to say he’s a descendant of David, he’s a descendant of Solomon, he’s a descendant of all the kings, he’s from this kingly line.
And the whole Old Testament is really just the family history story of Christ. It’s setting the stage, the table for Christ’s coming.
And I think there is a lot.
[00:27:23] Speaker B: Of begats, for sure.
[00:27:24] Speaker A: Definitely a lot of begatting.
[00:27:26] Speaker B: My favorite thing.
[00:27:27] Speaker A: And I think that this was part of their fear as far as they, in that time period, dealing with so many false Christs and to have him have a lineage that ties back to David. And at the same time, people treating him like the king when he rides triumphantly into Jerusalem and they say, here is our king. I would have to think that they would be aware of that line. And that is why Rome took the threat as seriously as they did, that here’s somebody that lays claim to the throne. Why they would put King of the Jews on the top of his cross.
[00:27:59] Speaker B: Interesting.
[00:28:00] Speaker A: I think it might factor into that.
All right.
Going into these best gifts, it says, seek ye earnestly the best gifts. And how do we seek those gifts? Right.
What do we do to seek these gifts?
And I have kind of an interesting story. In my mission, when I was down there, I got sick in Mexico. Yes, thank you. In Culiacan, Mexico.
Early on in the mission, I did get sick with amoebas. And Sunday afternoon, right after church, I just got super sick, went Home high fever.
And the other missionaries that I was with, they weren’t sure what to do. So in our freezer there was a big plate of ice. I don’t know the size of the freezer. And they just pulled that out and set it on top of me to try to get my body temperature down.
But the next day, I went to the doctor on Monday and he prescribed some medicine for the amoebas. And by Monday afternoon, I was feeling fine.
But later on in my mission, we had our mission president come and zone conferences, and we were out in the Baja peninsula of Mexico. So he flew over to the peninsula to come have his own conference. And after the zone conference, he was going to have his one on one interviews with the missionaries. And as I was preparing for this zone conference, I read the story in the Old Testament about Jacob wrestling with God, and he’s holding on to God and he won’t let him go until he gets a blessing.
And that story kind of stuck with me and impressed me. So when it was my turn to have an interview with the mission president, after the interview, he asked me, is there anything I can do for you?
And I decided at that time to ask for a blessing. It just kind of felt right.
He blessed me that all the food that I ate would be clean before I ate it and that I would be healthy.
And so I thought it was pretty cool.
But the end of the mission came, and I did not get sick another single day. The whole mission. Not only that, but the next 10 years of my life, I didn’t miss a single day of work.
I think I finally got strep throat a couple years ago.
Broke the run.
I mean, it was bad.
I stuck Q tips down.
I called the urgent care and said, I don’t want to go in, and I’m sure you guys don’t want me there either.
Would it be okay if I just stuck Q tips down my throat, put them in a Ziploc bag, and sent them there with my wife?
And they said, no, yeah, of course not.
[00:30:42] Speaker B: Hey, did your mission president, did he dislocate your hip before or after the blessing?
[00:30:49] Speaker A: Yeah, see, I escaped that one.
But I feel like, was that a.
[00:30:55] Speaker B: Good joke or not?
[00:30:57] Speaker A: That was pretty good.
[00:30:58] Speaker B: I mean, I’m just trying to show you that I do know something from the Old Testament.
[00:31:02] Speaker A: You know a lot from the Old Testament.
[00:31:03] Speaker B: I know very little about the Old Testament, but occasionally I’m like, oh, hey, I know kind of what. I know that story that he’s talking about, and I know that there’s like a broken leg or a broken hip in here somewhere. Was that a hip?
[00:31:16] Speaker A: It was a hip. It was.
[00:31:17] Speaker B: Did he dislocate his hip?
[00:31:18] Speaker A: He dislocates his hip. Stop.
Kind of his thigh bone. Yeah. Kind of an interesting story there. Yeah, it doesn’t sound great. Yeah, I didn’t have to go through that, but I was looking at that as kind of a spiritual blessing that I received.
I feel like I’ve been blessed with pretty good health ever since then. So I relate that story, but, I mean, I throw it out there. It says, seek ye earnestly, the best gifts.
How do we seek the best gifts? And what should we be doing? I don’t know. Do you have any. Any thoughts on that, Nate?
[00:31:51] Speaker B: I have thoughts.
Let me. Let me just. Let me just give you my big picture thought on this.
[00:31:59] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:32:01] Speaker B: I think that when we’re seeking gifts, I think the biggest thing is, is that we just need to first of all be honest with ourselves about why.
Why we’re seeking that gift.
And if it is, and if it’s for the correct reason, I think that it’ll actually be fairly obvious of how to obtain or nurture or curate or receive that gift.
Does that make sense?
[00:32:36] Speaker A: Absolutely it does. And I think maybe the key here is when it says, seek ye earnestly. The best gifts. How do we know what the best gifts are?
[00:32:48] Speaker B: I mean, for sure, the gift of flight would be number one.
[00:32:58] Speaker A: I look at this and I wonder if the best gift doesn’t depend on who it is. Right? Maybe kind of go into what you’re saying, but what is the purpose for this gift? What are we doing it? Like the Lord says, don’t consume it on your lust. Don’t just do it because you think it would be cool. I mean, yeah, everyone would love to fly, but maybe that’s not exactly the reason we should be seeking gifts in.
[00:33:19] Speaker B: A very non jokey way. Now. Okay, we’re told what the best gift is, right?
[00:33:24] Speaker A: We are told what the best gift is.
[00:33:26] Speaker B: Okay. I’m just making sure that I’m not making this up. Because if we’re supposed to be seeking the best gifts and we’re actually told what the best gifts are, I bet you that we could actually probably have a somewhat conclusive idea of how to seek those things.
[00:33:43] Speaker A: Well, I agree, but then it also says gifts plural, so maybe more than one. Even if we know what the best gift is, and Corinthians, chapter 14, verse 1, I believe it says, seek ye, charity, seek ye, but above all, seek ye the Gift of prophecy, at least when he says talking about the best gifts, that’s kind of high up on.
[00:34:08] Speaker B: Doesn’t in the Doctrine and Covenant say, like, the gift of eternal life is like is the best gift, though? Doesn’t it specifically say that?
[00:34:14] Speaker A: Probably does. Where does that say that?
[00:34:16] Speaker B: I’m going to look it up right now. Keep going, because I swear that I’m not making this up.
[00:34:21] Speaker A: So when he says best gift and he says best gifts, plural, what is it?
Moses, for example, he says, I wish that all men were prophets. And the context of that, right.
The poor guy is sitting on his chair in judgment all day long, and people are coming to him with all of their problems because he has this gift of discernment, or the gift of prophecy, I guess is how he calls it.
And it’s getting to be too much for him. And talking with, I believe, his Father in Law, and he gets this idea, you need to call 70 elders and share the load. And so he calls 70 elders. And they were set to be to receive this gift of the Spirit, this gift of prophecy. And when they go there, there’s one of them that’s missing, that’s outside of the camp. And so 69 of them are prophesying and filled with the Spirit. And then this other one, who kind of missed the event, walks in and then he goes to prophesy, and the other is like, no, you’re too late. You weren’t here when you were supposed to. And then Moses says, no, no, I wish everyone was a prophet. Don’t stop anyone from prophesying. I wish everyone was filled with the Spirit. Because if everyone is filled with the Spirit, then why do you need to go to Moses and complain about your problems? Wouldn’t you have the Spirit to be able to help you understand how to fix that and to come to terms with somebody else and be happy and rectify your situation without having to take it to somebody else.
Anyways, that is.
You found something.
[00:35:51] Speaker B: Found it. And it is. It’s in doctrine and covenants 46, 13. I knew it was in here. I was. I was a little off on what it was, but it’s more or less the same thing. But I do remember it saying that this is first among special gifts, and that is to know that Jesus is the Christ.
The knowledge is placed first among the spiritual gifts because it is. It is obtained by revelation to believe that Jesus, the Nazareth, Nazareth, Jeez, the anointed one, Messiah. This is from some commentary on it. Knowledge is a special gift, but it’s placed The Doctrine of Covenants 4613.
[00:36:27] Speaker A: I like it.
So the, the. The number one gift is.
Do you want to phrase that again?
[00:36:35] Speaker B: Yeah, the. The knowledge that Jesus is the Christ.
[00:36:38] Speaker A: Okay. And now I’m going to read the Book of Revelation, chapter 19, verse 10.
And it says, for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
[00:36:50] Speaker B: There it is.
[00:36:51] Speaker A: We were both right. We were both right.
We hit this from two different angles.
[00:36:57] Speaker B: This is great.
[00:36:58] Speaker A: Dude, we are on a roll tonight, man.
So I think that when we’re talking about the greatest gift, to be able to have the spirit and in a sense where you know that Jesus is the Christ, to have that testimony and that testimony drive all of the decisions that you’re making, it makes life so much easier for everybody else.
Right.
I mean, the gift of tongues is super helpful if you can translate for somebody, but how much more helpful is it if everyone’s speaking the same language? And that language being the language of the spirit, everybody’s on the same page where that spirit can reveal to them what. How you need to act or what you need to do or where you need to be or how.
[00:37:41] Speaker B: Yeah, I think you just nailed it of how we need to act. Right. Because the idea is.
The idea is if we truly are converted, which I know I’m trying to constantly do personally all the time, so I, I am not coming at this from a, hey, I’ve got this figured out. But I can tell you that when I’m in my best place with, you know, God and, And with where I’m at spiritually, it is. It’s just second nature to serve or to give, you know, or to try to uplift somebody else’s testimony. And again, like, for anybody that knows me, I. I’m admitting to everybody that doesn’t, like, trust me, I blow this all the time. But. But it. It is a very natural.
It is a very natural thing to do that once you, like, the deeper you are into this to your, you know, the closer you have, the better relationship you have with God. I really do feel like the fruits of that are immediately try to make other people’s lives better.
[00:38:42] Speaker A: There’s a reason why love God is the first commandment, right?
[00:38:45] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:38:46] Speaker A: It really does drive. If you love God, how could you not love your neighbor? How could you not keep everything else? I mean, it puts everything in perspective. It puts everything in line.
First off, seek the great. I mean, the greatest gifts are anything that pulls us to Christ. And I think that’s the purpose of all of these gifts and anything to unify and to help us.
And it is interesting as he’s diving into these. He says in verse 10, and again, verily I say unto you, I would that you should always remember and always retain. So both remember and retain here. Always remember and retain in your minds what those gifts are that are given unto the church.
And I’m like, oh, that’s interesting. I mean, I know where they’re at in the scriptures, and I know there’s the gift of healing and the gift to be healed. And I remember hearing about these. But how much do I remember and retain? And am I really putting a lot of time studying these or even taking it one step further? Am I seeing which of these gifts I should be developing if I’m seeking the best gifts? How much is this really on my mind?
[00:39:51] Speaker B: Well, that’s what’s. That’s what’s so cool about the word remember is that it’s to recall something maybe forgotten or to keep in mind for future consideration.
Right.
And that word remember, I feel like every time it’s used for me, I always like to try to put it in both contexts. You know, something that I may have forgotten that I need to recall or something that I need to keep in mind. And it even says there to retain in your minds. You know, what these gifts are.
[00:40:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:24] Speaker B: If it’s something that’s on your mind, I think you’re going to. Yeah. You’re going to be more.
[00:40:29] Speaker A: More apt to find it, seek it, or build it.
[00:40:31] Speaker B: Be aware of it. Yeah.
[00:40:33] Speaker A: And in the next verse, I guess it says, and unto every man is given a gift by the spirit of God and by man here. I’m sure they’re not talking about the male member of human society here. Right. Man.
And I feel bad because it kind of comes across sexist in the scriptures because man, for the most part, in most contexts that we read, it really does refer to mankind in general. Right. And saying, every man is given a gift by the spirit. It’s not every male. It is every person, every human, every human.
And everyone has a gift.
And this idea that everyone gets a gift and why do we get this gift? I guess that was a question I was going to ask a little bit earlier. But why do we have these gifts? It reminds me of Greek mythology, particularly. There you go.
[00:41:25] Speaker B: I love this.
[00:41:27] Speaker A: The heroes Perseus and Theseus and all of these guys, they are demigods, meaning that they had a godfather, if you will, or an immortal parent and a mortal parent.
And this idea that there is an eternal nature to us, a spirit that lives forever an immortal part of us and yet enclosed within a physical body housed within a physical nature of us. I almost see these heroes as typifying us in our journey to deification, to overcome trials. Right.
And in the book the Heroes by Charles Kingly. There’s just a quote here. Athena calls Perseus and gives him a choice. And this is powerful to me, so I’m just going to quote this real quick. She says, perseus, you must do an errand for me. I am Pallas Athena and I know the thoughts of all men’s hearts and discern their manhood or their baseness from the souls of clay. I turn away and they are blessed, but not by me.
They fatten at ease like sheep in the pasture and eat what they did not sow. Like oxen in the stall they grow and spread like the gourd along the ground. But like the gourd, they give no shade to the traveler. When they are ripe, death gathers them and they go down unloved into hell and their name vanishes out of the land.
But to the souls of fire, I give more fire.
And to those who are manful I give a mite more than man’s. These are the heroes the sons of the immortals who are blessed but not like the souls of clay. For I drive them forth by strange paths, Perseus that they may fight the Titans and monsters the enemies of gods and men. Through doubt and need, danger and battle I drive them. And some of them are slain in the flower of youth.
No man knows when or where. And some of them win noble names in a fair and green old age. But what will be their latter end I know not. And none save Zeus, the father of gods and men.
Tell me now, Perseus which of these two sorts of men seem to you more blessed and soy.
[00:43:48] Speaker B: So good.
[00:43:49] Speaker A: It’s pretty interesting.
[00:43:50] Speaker B: So good.
[00:43:53] Speaker A: Do you live a worthless life and not go through a lot? Or do you go out and battle the Titans the monsters the enemies of gods and men and go through doubt and need and danger and battle? And which one of these seems more blessed? And for Perseus, it was the latter.
And so he set out to do some impossible tasks. And that’s the thing about these Greek heroes when you read about their stories is they’re given these impossible tasks to do.
But they’re not left alone.
Perseus is given a knapsack from Hesperides to safely contain Medusa’s head. Zeus gives him an adamantine sword and also Hades Helm of Darkness, to hide him, Hermes lets Perseus borrow his winged shoes. So he gets the gift of flight. There. Nate, there you are. What?
And Athena gives him a polished sword. But that’s something that you kind of see common in these theory, these stories about these heroes.
[00:44:58] Speaker B: Polished shield.
[00:45:00] Speaker A: Shield. Did I say sword? I’m sorry?
[00:45:01] Speaker B: Sword. Because the shields, that’s the hero of the story is that shield.
[00:45:05] Speaker A: Right. Because it reflects Medusa’s glare.
[00:45:08] Speaker B: That’s right.
[00:45:09] Speaker A: And turns her back to stone. Right.
So this idea in life is that it’s not going to be.
Well, maybe I shouldn’t say not. It is going to be hard.
We are going to have struggles. We are going to battle things. Some people battle with depression or anxiety. Some people battle with loneliness.
Some people battle with greed or whatever the case may be.
And it’s not easy.
But to help us battle these and to make this journey, God is giving us special gifts, just like these Greek heroes.
And it might not be a sword, but as we discuss these gifts, and it’s not just the Greek heroes, I mean, you can see this influenced in the writings of C.S. lewis and J.R.R. tolkien, when you look at the lion, the Witch and the wardrobe, and what happens when Santa Claus rolls up in his sled and. And gives each one of them a special gift to help them battle evil at the end. And Tolkien, when you look at the Elven robes and the Fellowship and all the elf bread and whatever else they’re given to help them with their journey.
But the journey’s not easy, right?
[00:46:18] Speaker B: Gimli just wanted some hair, right?
It’s true. I just watched that literally, like yesterday. I don’t know why I put that back on. But Gimli, he’s like, I just want, like, one thread of your hair.
[00:46:31] Speaker A: He did say that.
[00:46:32] Speaker B: And then he got three. He was so stoked.
[00:46:34] Speaker A: He was stoked.
[00:46:35] Speaker B: Sorry, keep going.
[00:46:36] Speaker A: But they did receive special gifts from these spiritually empowered beings, Right? This idea, this concept is old. It’s not something that all of a sudden, hey, I am going to give you this gift. I mean, from the beginning of time, God has known that the mission that we are coming to fill here on earth is wrought with trial, wrought with doubt, with need, with danger, and to give us the best chance of success, these are our gifts. So when he says remember and retain, why would we set aside the polished shield when that might be our best chance of survival?
So what are our gifts? I think there’s a real importance for us to be identifying what the Lord has given us. And finding ways. And as he says earlier, with the end of our salvation in mind, how do we use this gift to help others?
[00:47:30] Speaker B: Can I jump in here real quick?
[00:47:31] Speaker A: Please do.
[00:47:35] Speaker B: Let me start by asking you questions. I have thoughts on this, too. But how do we know what our spiritual gifts are?
[00:47:42] Speaker A: That’s a good question. I think part one thing is we read through the list of gifts. I think sometimes as we’re reading it, we just feel something resonate. Like, you know what? I’ve seen examples of that in my life where I’ve seen where I have something like this or you feel a little bit of an attraction.
Another is patriarchal blessings. When we go back.
Yeah. When we go and read our patriarchal blessing and we see what the patriarch has blessed us with or what the Lord has blessed us, and maybe we have developed that or maybe we haven’t. And then part of it is, what do we desire? Because the Lord is saying, seek ye the best gifts. What gifts do we think we want to cultivate? And how do we go about doing that? I mean, there are three suggestions that I have.
[00:48:28] Speaker B: But what I agree with. No, I agree with all those.
I think one that sometimes gets looked over is our baby blessings. I know we’ve kind of joked about it a little bit, too.
And I think when I say gets looked over a little bit is that I’m always kind of bummed out. I’m always kind of bummed out when I, you know, see a baby blessing. And I’m like, man, here’s the first really great chance in the name of God, hopefully with the spirit, to give this child some gifts or put down on a piece of paper what the Lord is telling you that he has blessed them with. Right?
[00:49:08] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:49:09] Speaker B: I always kind of get a little bit. I always, at least for me, it’s like I always, it’s. I take those seriously as well. The three times that I’ve had to babe to bless a baby, you know.
[00:49:19] Speaker A: I mean, it got to the point in general conference, right, where the prophet says, when you were giving a blessing and it just sounds like you’re saying a prayer, what are you blessing them with?
[00:49:28] Speaker B: Exactly?
[00:49:29] Speaker A: Use some strong language.
We bless you with.
[00:49:33] Speaker B: I completely agree with this.
[00:49:34] Speaker A: Bless you with. Here is your opportunity. And I might joke around a lot by saying godlike strength and devilishly good.
[00:49:41] Speaker B: Looks, but I mean, no, but I take those seriously. And it’s always. I feel like sometimes it’s a missed opportunity. I think you’re right for me. I’m not going to judge anybody else. But it’s like, I.
It’s one of the ones that I think kind of gets, like, lost in the shuffle. Like, I think we always can say, oh, patriarchal blessing. Well, I’ll tell you what, that patriarch has spent an entire life preparing himself so that he can be.
He can be ready, you know what I mean? And he can. And you know, that he can be prepared to be a, you know, a direct line of communication. You know what I mean? That he can be there.
The voice, the mouthpiece, I guess, is what I’m saying, for the Spirit.
And I think that I’m always worried that I’m going to miss an opportunity because I think that that is the first amazing chance and then it gets into, okay, well, what do I need to do so that I’m not such a knucklehead and, like, actually prepare myself so that I’m not inhibiting the Spirit when I’m giving those blessings? But luckily, luckily, I think that for me at least, God looks past my idiotness when I’m giving those blessings and goes, hey, this is way more for this baby than it is for you. You know what I mean?
Because. Because I’ll say that those are truly some of the most spiritual.
I can still distinctly remember just being overwhelmed and, you know, truly just saying what was coming to my heart and not. And not preparing necessarily the words to say, but just trying to prepare in general.
But I don’t know. I’m a big believer in baby blessings, man.
[00:51:26] Speaker A: I’m a big believer and. Two thoughts on that. I mean, you talk about more for the baby, and I can’t help but think of King David, something that struck me as odd at the end of his life. It says that he stood up and he addressed the people being filled with the Spirit. And I could never square that up. Like how, knowing what he did, how is it that he could stand up being filled with the Spirit and speak to Israel? And in the end, it was his calling, right? It was his responsibility.
And regardless of what his fate is, regardless of where he’s going in that moment, God needed him to provide spiritual counsel to a people that depended on him for it. And so don’t let feelings of inadequacy or unworthiness keep you or hesitate you from being able to pour out blessings upon someone you care so deeply about.
I think, like you said, the Lord knows, and it’s a lot more about this baby. He’s. He’s going to sustain you in that. In that moment.
[00:52:27] Speaker B: I believe the same thing is too, with a Lot of blessings. Like when. When people, when people ask you, maybe you’re. You’re a minister to a family or something like that, and they need a blessing. It’s like sometimes maybe you just got home from a long day of work and, you know, maybe it wasn’t a day that you probably did your best. You know, you could probably admit you had a better day. But I still think that there’s something.
I still think that, like, you exactly just said that as a minister, if you’re like, hey, we need you to come and give our family blessing instead of saying no, because I’m an idiot and I make mistakes and I swear too much and I. You know what I mean? Like, I probably need to spend more time and attention. I probably need to be nicer to people on the road. It’s like, I feel like you could go through that laundry list every single day, right? But instead the Lord goes, no, no, go fulfill your calling. You and I can square away later, but you shouldn’t shirk your calling or punish this other person because you and I still have some stuff that we need to square away. Like, you go be the conduit. I’ll take care of the rest, you know, or at least be open to that.
[00:53:33] Speaker A: And do you want to add to that list?
Not doing that. Right. Exactly. And I look at, I look at that. I mean, okay, whatever’s happened and I’m trying to improve, I know I’m not perfect. I know I’m never going to be at the point where I want to be. But I’m trying, and I’m trying really hard. And at the same time, looking forward, what is the best thing for me to do right now? Do I have an opportunity to try to do the right thing, to magnify, to do something that’s going to uplift someone else? Or am I just going to chalk one more thing that I’m going to have to try to work out later on down the road?
[00:54:09] Speaker B: I mean, the answer should probably be, if you get that call, maybe still take a moment to reflect and go and pray. And, you know, I mean, prepare still as much as you can. But sometimes you just don’t have the time. You know what I mean? Sometimes it’s just the spur of the moment. And I would hope that, you know, I would hope that any family that I would minister to would always feel comfortable knowing, like, hey, like, I’m a knucklehead, but. But it’s not about me, you know, And I don’t know.
[00:54:34] Speaker A: Well, maybe the best way to sum it up is the counsel that the Lord gives right at the beginning. Right. Don’t turn anyone away from your meetings, but do all things prayerfully, right? So go and do the blessings or go and bless your child. Do whatever you can, do the best that you can, but do all things prayerfully. And if there is a reason, if there is something there that is holding you back from being able to perform that or magnify that, by all means, if the Lord says don’t, don’t. Right?
We are not saying push through things if you know that there is anything keeping you back, but do all things prayerfully and let the Lord decide.
But also trust in the Lord and give yourself more credit. Don’t hesitate and hold back when you have an opportunity to do something as wonderful as that.
[00:55:20] Speaker B: Cool.
[00:55:21] Speaker A: And as you’re talking about baby blessings, I guess one last note I wanted to hit is we’ve kind of, I don’t know, lately, kind of a theme of these, you know, the Rumpelstiltskin or these folklores or the mythology or whatever the case may be is I cannot help but think about Sleeping Beauty when I think about these baby blessings. Because what is it? At the very beginning, these fairies come to bless this baby with certain gifts, Right. And that’s what ends up cursing her is that fairy who blesses her, I bless you. That you’re going to be pricking your finger on and sleep for.
It wasn’t very much of a blessing.
[00:55:58] Speaker B: But that doesn’t sound like a great thing at all.
[00:56:00] Speaker A: No, but I think when we see these things finding their way in folklore, I mean, it’s just one more testimony, I guess, to me, that there is something to it. There is something innate in human existence. I mean, this.
I don’t know, it is part of us.
[00:56:16] Speaker B: For sure.
[00:56:16] Speaker A: It is.
All right.
Moving into, let’s see, to some is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that he was crucified for the sins of the world. And to others, it is given to believe, believe on their words that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful.
So I ask myself this, which is greater?
And when I first read this, if I have the option of either knowing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God versus believing somebody else who’s telling me that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, I go with no every time. That seems like the better gift.
Please, I’ll take this one.
[00:57:03] Speaker B: Yeah, that makes sense to me.
[00:57:04] Speaker A: Yeah. But as I was reading this again, I could not help but think about Thomas.
Yeah.
Everyone’s telling him Jesus has risen, and he’s like, yeah, I’m not going to believe it until I see it. Like, he did not have the gift to believe on their words. He had to know for himself. And then when he sees Christ and Christ says, hey, blessed are you for believing, but how much more blessed would you have been had you believed on the testimony that people were giving you to believe without seeing? And so I look at that and it almost makes me look at it differently. Like, maybe the fact that you can believe on someone else’s words is a greater gift.
[00:57:47] Speaker B: I think when we read looks like we’re believing just like our buddy’s words.
But I don’t think it’s that. Right? It’s that the scriptures we read are somebody else’s testimony. The prophet is somebody else’s testimony, all these other things.
So we’re not necessarily just looking at somebody that’s on the street saying, hey, like, trust me on this one. Right, right, right, right. That believing on, to believe on somebody else’s words is critical for everything that we do that requires any sort of faith. Right. But doesn’t it still seem like knowing is the final finish line? A little bit of believing on somebody else’s words? Like, doesn’t it still feel like the.
The fruits of the faith labor are still at the end of the day, knowing?
[00:58:39] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think. I think as we start looking at these gifts, we find that they are not mutually exclusive. In fact, one gift might lead into the other. Because when we talk about to know that Jesus Christ is the son of God, it doesn’t say to see and know. It says to be given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the son of God. And perhaps a lot of us, that’s how this works, is we start with the gift to believe on the words of other. Because faith, as it says in the New Testament faith, comes by hearing and the hearing by the word of God. And before we know we believe on something, we believe on these words. And maybe one gift matures into another gift.
[00:59:23] Speaker B: I totally agree with that.
So, so then can we say the no is the best one then still or no?
[00:59:29] Speaker A: You know what?
Probably so.
[00:59:31] Speaker B: All right.
[00:59:32] Speaker A: Probably so. And maybe, maybe when it says, seek ye the best gifts.
[00:59:38] Speaker B: See those.
[00:59:38] Speaker A: What I’m saying, maybe this is what it’s referring to. You have the gift to believe on others words. Now seek ye the best gift. Take this one step further and find a way to know.
[00:59:49] Speaker B: I think that that is, that is connecting the two. That’s connecting the dots for me.
Yeah, Love it.
[00:59:55] Speaker A: Awesome. Okay, next. It says to know the difference of administration. And that seems kind of like a weird little gift to have. You can know the difference of administration.
[01:00:04] Speaker B: I mean, are we talking about the difference of administration versus ministration here?
[01:00:09] Speaker A: It just says to know the difference of administration.
And I wanted a little help on this. And it does show up in First Corinthians 12.
So we have the same gifts, the same blessings. So I looked up the Greek here, and this made me laugh. The Greek word for administration comes from diakono, or deacons.
So deacons, literally, this is the gift to be deaconing.
If you make that a verb. Yes, deaconing.
Or I guess not deaconing, because it’s to know the difference of deaconing.
[01:00:42] Speaker B: Oh, okay.
[01:00:45] Speaker A: And deacon in Greek means to be the servant of a king. It’s the one who carries out the orders.
[01:00:50] Speaker B: Administration, Administration.
[01:00:52] Speaker A: They’re the one that collect the money. They’re the one that distribute the money. They’re the ones that care for the poor. They’re the ones that are going out and doing the footwork. So it’s not the gift of deaconing, but it’s the gift to know the difference of deaconing. In other words, I think this is the gift to organize and give direction.
Some people are really good at this big picture. People that can look at something and they can organize and say, okay, I need you to be handling this and you to understand this. And I think people with this gift have a good understanding for the priesthood, the levels of the priesthood, the calling of a teacher, the calling of a deacon, the calling of a priest, the calling of an elder. And when you understand the governance of God and how to organize and give directions, I believe this is a spiritual gift that God has given.
[01:01:38] Speaker B: Cool.
[01:01:39] Speaker A: Some people are really good at that.
[01:01:41] Speaker B: Not me.
[01:01:42] Speaker A: The other is the diversity.
[01:01:44] Speaker B: I’m good at ministration.
[01:01:46] Speaker A: Well, and I think try to be. At least that might be where this comes in. Because the next gift is diversity of operations.
[01:01:52] Speaker B: Yeah, that’s not one of mine either. I don’t know. Maybe it is. Hit me with it.
[01:01:56] Speaker A: So operations again. I looked this up in the New Testament. Just wanted a little bit of help here on this. The Greek word as energma.
[01:02:03] Speaker B: Okay.
[01:02:04] Speaker A: Which is where we get the word energy from, but also where we get ergonomics, the study of being efficient or working efficiently. And really what this is coming to is where the pavement hits the. Or where the tires hit the pavement. Is that the better how you actually say it?
Yeah, it’s.
[01:02:24] Speaker B: My daughter taught me what an idiom was last week, my 8 year old.
[01:02:27] Speaker A: There you go.
[01:02:27] Speaker B: Okay, continue. Okay, so where the rubber hits the pavement.
[01:02:32] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:02:33] Speaker B: I don’t know.
[01:02:34] Speaker A: Never mind where the tires hit the road.
[01:02:36] Speaker B: Tire hits the road, rubber hits the pavement.
[01:02:39] Speaker A: Something where it happens, the operations, this is the work.
This is where all the energy happens. This is where it’s taking place.
And for me, some people are a little bit more small picture. Like, I don’t care about how this all works. I just need to know what’s in front of me and what I need to do so I can do my job and move on to the next thing. Just line me up out, and I am good. So I think some people are really good at organizing and giving directions, and other people are really good at just knocking things out and getting it done. That’s kind of how I look at this.
[01:03:12] Speaker B: What if I’m not good at either?
[01:03:15] Speaker A: Well, you. You’ve got to be good at something, though.
[01:03:17] Speaker B: I mean, you would. I’m good at Mario Kart.
[01:03:20] Speaker A: You are? You are Mario Kart.
I don’t know. Some.
[01:03:27] Speaker B: I just wish that. I’m just trying to. I’m looking at both of these and I’m like, look, I’m not really good at necessarily organizing things. Big picture.
I’m definitely not good at just being like, hey, give me a list of things that need to get done just because I lose focus. But you want to know what I’m good at? Loving, dude.
[01:03:43] Speaker A: There you go.
[01:03:43] Speaker B: I can love people.
So where does that come in?
Please tell me that’s one in here.
[01:03:49] Speaker A: Well, as we talk about operations, let’s look at it a little bit differently. If we say it’s energy and this idea of workings, literally it is the workings, right? So if we look at the operations as the workings of the spirit or the energies that are filled, to be able to discern spirits or feel that motivation, understand what motivates from God or what motivations are coming from the adversary, to be able to have gift of discernment maybe fits into this a little bit. Okay, but.
But feeling that spirit and acting on it in a way that shows more love. I mean, obviously, as you’ve mentioned, some people just have a innate ability or a gift to be able to minister like the savior, to be able to love people and spend time with them, talk about them, and help them feel important.
[01:04:40] Speaker B: I try to do that. I will tell you, though, that it is interesting because I didn’t. I didn’t know that this was a thing until, until I did go on a mission and was not super awesome about obeying every detail and fine letter of the law. Like I was not good at being exactly obedient but like I felt no inhibition whatsoever when it came to just being able to like love people without trying. Like, it’s weird.
Maybe that’s in here somewhere. I don’t know, maybe that’s, maybe that’s what the ergonomics one is.
[01:05:12] Speaker A: Well, I think.
[01:05:16] Speaker B: Hopefully that counts.
[01:05:17] Speaker A: It super counts. It’s arguably more important than anything, honestly, because it says.
It’s actually really touching when I read Moroni’s words about the subject because he says, although a man may prophesy, and we talked about prophecy and having a testament of Christ being the greatest gift of all. Although a man prophesy, although a man does this or that, if he has not charity, he is nothing.
And Moroni saw our time and when he saw our time and he saw what was going on, his heart broke a little bit and he prayed and said, God, please bless them with charity.
If there was one gift that Moroni could reach through the eons and give us and touch us and instill upon us, it’s what you’re saying that that gift of charity, that gift of love.
[01:06:10] Speaker B: And I wish I was more charitable.
I don’t know when you’re saying that I’m like, man, I don’t feel like I actually qualify for that as much. It’s interesting though, to your point, if that is one of the, if that is one of the best gifts, which I would agree it is. Like, I think, I think we could probably find plenty of evidence that that is at the top of the lists.
Luckily we’re kind of given an instruction manual on how to obtain that one.
[01:06:33] Speaker A: Yes. So that’s good and that’s one we should absolutely be seeking. But what’s heart wrenching to me is God’s response to Moroni when he says if they have not charity, it’s not on you.
It’s not a very positive answer.
Don’t worry about it.
They’re going to be them.
I don’t know. To me it’s just heart rending to see the charity that he had to pour his whole soul out for us if we could give us one thing, this gift of charity. And God says if they don’t have it, don’t worry about it and be like, ooh, crazy. But yeah, that is absolutely something that we should be developing. And I think sometimes we are our own harshest Critics, Right. Sometimes we look at it and say, maybe not so much this or maybe I don’t have. I don’t know if we could look at ourselves through other people’s eyes and see what they do. Maybe going back to a comment that you had earlier, how do we know what gifts we have?
Maybe, maybe spend some time talking to your parents or your spouse, people that love you, that know you and they can see you from an outside perspective because they might pick up on things and not be so critical or judgmental of you as much as you are going to be on yourself.
[01:07:48] Speaker B: I get that. I believe that.
[01:07:50] Speaker A: Okay, here they, they talk about wisdom and knowledge. Again, these kind of go in these little, these little couplets, if you will. It says, again, verily I say unto you to some is given by the spirit of God the word of wisdom. To another is given the word of knowledge, that all may be taught to be wise and to have knowledge.
So what is.
I. I think, I think people have talked about the difference between wisdom and knowledge a lot. Right. The idea that wisdom is knowing what to do with what you know, where knowledge is what you actually know. Right.
In the Greek, wisdom is Sophia, and it’s more of a broad deal. Knowledge comes from the same word as the Gnostics. The Gnostics. And this is more deep, profound, penetrating.
And in, in the ancient languages, that knowledge is the same word that they use as a euphemism for intimacy, for knowing Adam knew his wife or this idea that there is a deeper knowledge.
So a lot of times we kind of write off knowledge and say, oh, it’s just book smarts or knowing a lot of facts. It’s not near as important as the wisdom or this idea of common sense. But in here I think there’s something more deep or penetrating about knowledge. And it’s not to say that one is better than the other, as we’re looking for what the best gifts are. Because the Lord, when he says this, he says to some is given the word of wisdom, to others given the word of knowledge, that all may be taught to be wise and to have knowledge.
[01:09:28] Speaker B: It’s awesome. It’s good that we’re talking. It’s good that. That said, because I think you’re right, sometimes we’re like, oh, it’s not as important to have a lot of information. It’s like, I don’t think that word knowledge in this case is just talking about having a lot of information.
[01:09:40] Speaker A: No, I think it’s being deeply familiar and intimate. Like you’re, you’re diving in and understanding things at a whole different level. Right.
[01:09:52] Speaker B: Which leads to knowledge or which leads to wisdom. I feel like it does. Having a deeper understanding of something, I think makes it so that you can apply it. I mean, that’s why I love just reading through the notes of that you put together for these things is because I’m like, oh, hey, there’s knowledge. There’s a deeper level of understanding of information in here that helps me make way deeper connections and actually apply things more that I wouldn’t have been able to apply without understanding it a little bit deeper.
[01:10:20] Speaker A: And they go together.
And I think it’s key here that God does not say, to some I give the gift of wisdom, and to others I give the gift of knowledge. You’ll notice I give the gift of the word of wisdom and the gift of the word of knowledge because he says the purpose is so that all everyone may be taught both love it. So everybody gets both knowledge and wisdom, and it’s important that everyone gets a little bit of both. But these gifts is not that you get it or not. Maybe you have a gift for understanding and learning to teach it. Maybe you have this gift where you catch on and you learn these things and now you can disseminate it. But everybody gets to benefit from these gifts as they learn these things.
As we, I don’t know, we can scroll through some of these gifts, but I think maybe something as we’re getting to trying to wrap this up a little bit, they starting to come in pairs. And you’ll notice a lot as we talked about the wisdom, we talked about the knowledge, the knowing versus believing, you’re going to talk about the gift of healing versus the gift of being healed, the gift of tongues versus the gift of translating by tongues.
And there’s all sorts of great blessings here.
And maybe verse 26 to just kind of cap this off, it says, and all these gifts come from God for the benefit of the children of God.
And maybe just going right back to this idea that we are heroes, we have an impossible quest in front of us, but it’s made possible by these gifts from a divine being who is giving it to us. And verse 32, and you must give thanks unto God in the Spirit for whatsoever blessing he has blessed you with.
And as we are trying to keep this remember and retain on our mind, maybe that’s one of the best ways to remember and retain it is do we take time to kneel down and earnestly thank God for the gifts and recognize what gifts we’ve had if we not sure what gifts we have.
Take some time to figure it out. Pray, study, think about it. Talk to people that know you well.
And then pray with God and give thanks for those gifts. And maybe ask him, how can I do this? With your eternal salvation at the end, your. Your endgame in mind, how can I use this gift to help me get to where I need to be?
Love it.
[01:12:58] Speaker B: Okay, what are we talking about next week?
[01:13:00] Speaker A: Next week, we are diving into Doctrine and covenants, sections 49 and 50. It’s dealing with receiving light. I love it.
[01:13:07] Speaker B: I have thoughts on this. I’ll have thoughts next week.
[01:13:10] Speaker A: Excellent.
[01:13:11] Speaker B: Ready? I’m ready.
[01:13:12] Speaker A: All right.
[01:13:13] Speaker B: All right. See you next week.
[01:13:14] Speaker A: Bye.
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