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Witnesses to the atonement – biased, hostile, and independent. An unfair trial. Who shall I send? The slow grind that was the crucifixion. Making olives from oil. A temple on Golgotha. The detail in the garment.
Link to the description of what Christ suffered on the cross:
https://www.apu.edu/articles/the-science-of-the-crucifixion/
Great job guys, as always.
I have to take issue with your thoughts on the Sacrament. It is unwise to say that partaking of the Sacrament is not renewing our baptismal covenants, when it is EXACTLY that.
To say, “I’ve really found a new deeper connection with partaking of the Sacrament each week that goes way beyond kind of like the cultural reciting of renewing our baptismal covenants each week. I don’t think that that’s what we’re doing. And I have yet to find anywhere doctrinally that says that when we take the Sacrament we’re “renewing our baptismal covenants”. (Guys, that is factually incorrect)
Consider the following Doctrinal teachings and sources:
We Renew Our Baptismal Covenants through the Sacrament (Visiting Teaching Message, June 2010)
“When we are baptized, we take upon ourselves the sacred name of Jesus Christ. Taking upon us His name is one of the most significant experiences we have in life. …
“Each week in sacrament meeting we promise to remember the atoning sacrifice of our Savior as we renew our baptismal covenant. We promise to do as the Savior did—to be obedient to the Father and always keep His commandments. The blessing we receive in return is to always have His Spirit to be with us.” (Elder Robert D. Hales of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. [Robert D. Hales, “The Covenant of Baptism: To Be in the Kingdom and of the Kingdom,” Liahona, Jan. 2001, 8; Ensign, Nov. 2008, 8.])
True to the Faith
Your Baptismal Covenant
When you were baptized, you entered into a covenant with God. You promised to take upon yourself the name of Jesus Christ, keep His commandments, and serve Him to the end (see Mosiah 18:8–10; D&C 20:37). You renew this covenant each time you partake of the sacrament (see 20:77, 79).
Doctrinal Study (Gospel topics manual)
Sacrament
Partaking of the sacrament is a witness to God that the remembrance of His Son will extend beyond the short time of that sacred ordinance. Part of this ordinance is a promise to remember Him always and a witness of individual willingness to take upon oneself the name of Jesus Christ and to keep His commandments. In partaking of the sacrament and making these commitments, Church members renew the covenant they made at baptism (see Mosiah 18:8–10; Doctrine and Covenants 20:37).
Liahona July 2012
“Those who have received the saving ordinances of baptism and confirmation partake of the sacrament each week to renew those covenants. While partaking of the bread and water, we remember the sacrifice the Savior made for us. In addition, we ponder the covenants we have made to take upon us the name of Jesus Christ, always remember Him, and keep His commandments. In turn, God extends the promise that His Spirit may be with us always (see D&C 20:77, 79).
The ordinance of the sacrament is an opportunity each week to renew sacred covenants that allow us to be partakers of the Savior’s atoning grace with the same spiritually cleansing effect of baptism and confirmation.
Church leaders have also taught that when we take the sacrament, we renew not only our baptismal covenants but “all covenants entered into with the Lord.” (Delbert L. Stapley, in Conference Report, Oct. 1965, 14; see also Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley (1997), 561; The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball (1982), 220.)
I could go on and on with Doctrinal Sources, that say when we partake of the Sacrament, we ARE renewing our Baptismal Covenants.
Enlarging our understanding of the Sacrament and what it means is good for those who are seeking it. But, those who have not been able to make temple covenants yet, are typically renewing only Baptismal covenants.
That is not to say that we don’t also renew other covenants we have made (i.e. temple covenants)
Hopefully I am helping you to see that we should not diminish the fact that we DO renew our baptismal covenants when we partake of the Sacrament. Other covenants do not take a place of more importance during the Sacrament. There does not exist a cultural verbiage around the ordinance of the Sacrament each week, when we say that it is like getting baptized again each week. You are on the verge of teaching false doctrine. IT IS DOCTRINE. The Sacrament cleanses us from the soil of sin, just like when we get baptized.
Elder Dallin H. Oaks Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles:
“How grateful we are that the Lord has provided a process for each baptized member of His Church to be periodically cleansed from the soil of sin. The sacrament is an essential part of that process.
We are commanded to repent of our sins and to come to the Lord with a broken heart and a contrite spirit and partake of the sacrament in compliance with its covenants. When we renew our baptismal covenants in this way, the Lord renews the cleansing effect of our baptism. In this way we are made clean and can always have His Spirit to be with us. The importance of this is evident in the Lord’s commandment that we partake of the sacrament each week (see D&C 59:8–9). (General Conference October, 1998.)
Hope this was helpful and did not come off as contentious. I love your podcast and listen to it each week.
Okay, I should have finished the entire podcast. There is another issue with your thoughts on Baptism and receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost. Though they are separate “ordinances”, baptism by water is not complete without baptism by fire.
The Prophet Joseph Smith said,
“The baptism of water, without the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost attending it, is of no use; they are necessarily and inseparably connected. An individual must be born of water and the Spirit in order to get into the kingdom of God.” (TPJS pg 360)
Are YOU possibly thinking that Baptismal covenants are only associated with baptism by water? You may want to rethink that. The word “baptism” in this case is inseparably connected to confirmation (receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, i.e. the cleansing agent, the baptism by fire) thus allowing us to have His Spirit with us always.
When did the baptismal covenants become so insignificant in your eyes?
Mosiah 18:8…and now, as ye are desirous to come into the fold of God, and to be called his people, and are willing to bear one another’s burdens, that they may be light;
9 Yea, and are willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort, and to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in, even until death, that ye may be redeemed of God, and be numbered with those of the first resurrection, that ye may have eternal life—
10 Now I say unto you, if this be the desire of your hearts, what have you against being baptized in the name of the Lord, as a witness before him that ye have entered into a covenant with him, that ye will serve him and keep his commandments, that he may pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you?
I’d say that those are significant covenants we make at baptism. I don’t hear much of temple covenants in the Sacramental Prayers. Do you? Maybe keep the commandments. (Temple covenants are: 1.The Law of obedience 2.The Law of Sacrifice 3.The Law of the Gospel 4.The Law of Chastity 5.The Law of Consecration)
Again in my opinion, the focus of the Sacrament IS renewal of Baptismal covenants. What covenants are we making, if not that?
Adding more symbolism to the Sacrament (i.e. the veil being rent, etc.) is all well and good, as long as it is rooted in Gospel teachings. Interpretation of scripture unless also taught by the brethren is dicey. Can you give me sources that teach about the Sacrament more in line with the Passover verses Baptism? When Jesus said that I will leave you my comforter, is that not the Holy Ghost? (that he may pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you? see baptismal covenant in Mosiah above). How is it not the same as baptism?
Baptism is NOT like a bath…these kinds of comments are infuriating to me. Do members really think like that? I hope not.
Maybe I’m missing your point. Just not seeing it.
It may be thought provoking and good to ask questions and seek answers, but this particular episode just didn’t completely sit well with me. Sorry.
Okay nuff said.
Thank you, you’ve given us a lot to think about, and we are excited to be doing a bonus episode to get be able to better address ordinances and what they mean to us. Stay tuned! Worried we won’t be able to properly express everything in the comments and explore this in as much detail as we want here. I’ll post a link here in the comments when the episode comes out.
Hi, guys! Amazing stuff! Thank you. Do you have the link frio the doctor when Christ was on the cross? Thanks!
Thanks, completely forgot to get this posted! I’ll edit the episode to include it too. Here it is:
https://www.apu.edu/articles/the-science-of-the-crucifixion/
I’ll never read Christ’s words “It is Finished” the same way again. It touched my heart profoundly! Christ’s testimony that the work is complete. Wow! Jason! Thanks again. 🙂 And thanks for the link!
THANK YOU!