Come and see. The Word made flesh. John the Baptist was a great prophet. Jesus’ invitation to come and see. The interesting exchange between Nathaniel and Jesus.
Transcript:
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:15] Speaker B: Welcome to the weekly Deep Dive podcast on the Add On Education Network. The podcast where we take a look at the weekly Come follow me discussion and try to add a little insight and unique perspective. I am your host, Jason Lloyd, here in the studio with our friend and this show’s producer, Nate Pyfer.
[00:00:31] Speaker C: What is up, Nate?
[00:00:32] Speaker B: Hey, Nate.
[00:00:33] Speaker C: How are you doing?
[00:00:35] Speaker B: Fantastic.
[00:00:36] Speaker C: That’s all I want to hear.
I just want to hear that you’re always doing fantastic, but I also don’t want you to lie to me because I’m here for you if you’re not feeling fantastic.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: Oh, thank you, Nate. I am fantastic.
Well, no, I’m doing fine.
[00:00:49] Speaker A: There you go.
[00:00:51] Speaker B: All right.
How are you doing, Nate?
[00:00:53] Speaker C: I mean, I’m also fantastic.
[00:00:55] Speaker A: What are we talking about this week, baby?
[00:00:56] Speaker B: I’m excited because this week we get to talk about John and.
[00:01:00] Speaker C: Yeah, I’m so ready for this, dude.
[00:01:02] Speaker B: I know. I’ve been looking forward to this because you’ve been stoking me up for this episode for the past two weeks. You’ve been fueling the fire and looking forward to this discussion. So I’m glad we’ve arrived.
[00:01:15] Speaker A: I have.
[00:01:15] Speaker C: I want to preface this with I think John gets overlooked.
I think John’s way more important than we sometimes culturally give him credit for, at least in the.
You know, I mean, we definitely give him some love, but I think that he is a way more important piece than we kind of culturally give him credit for.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: I agree 100%. It’s.
It’s. When you see the sun in the sky as. As bright and shining as it is, what star do you notice next to it?
Right.
[00:01:46] Speaker C: That’s the. That’s exactly right.
[00:01:48] Speaker B: And that’s the weird thing to think about. Like, the same stars you see at night are up in the sky in the morning, too. The sky hasn’t changed. All the stars are up there. You just can’t see them because the sun is so bright.
And John is an extremely bright star, but because of his position with the savior coming into the world, he kind of drops off a little bit.
[00:02:12] Speaker C: Yep.
Not for us, he doesn’t.
[00:02:15] Speaker B: Not for us.
[00:02:15] Speaker C: We’re giving him some love today.
[00:02:16] Speaker B: In fact, we are going to be talking about two different Johns today.
We’re talking. Obviously, when we’re talking about John, just a second ago, we’re talking about John the Baptist, the forerunner, the one that came to announce.
I don’t know if announce is the right word. To prepare the way, maybe is a better way of putting that. To prepare the way of the Messiah of Jesus Christ coming into the world.
But we’re going to be reading it from the words of John the Beloved, another John. And this is the John that was asked with the other apostles, what is it that you desire? And he desired to remain on the earth. Right. And we get that understanding that he’s lived forever.
[00:02:57] Speaker C: Wait, where is John?
[00:02:59] Speaker B: Where’s John?
I don’t know, but he’s still here. But he should still be around somewhere.
[00:03:06] Speaker C: That’s wild.
[00:03:07] Speaker B: It is wild and it’s interesting because John, a lot of scholars say that he was the youngest of the 12 apostles.
And I think the reason why they give him credit for being the youngest is because the book of John is credited for being written around 90 AD.
And so if you look at 90 AD, how old was John and you look at how well written this book is, what 90 year old man, particularly a 90 year old man living in a world where you don’t live to your 90s, is putting together such a well, carefully written book. Well thought out.
He’s very much aware of his, in possession of his faculties. Is that the right way to put this?
And a lot of scholars will say that he died anywhere from 100 to 120 years old.
And that’s kind of the idea that he disappears around that time period. But we don’t have a lot of details with what happened after he gets banished there with the island of Patmos.
But he is an interesting apostle, he’s beloved. And we get to see a little bit of his personality come out as we read this book.
And so I think when people are looking at it and saying, well, if this was written when he’s 90, he had to have been super young at the time he was called to be an apostle. So that’s where you put that.
That’s where you give him a very young date, saying that he was a younger apostle. And maybe that’s the case, or maybe he just did live forever.
You don’t have to put him as decrepit and dying at 90 years old because he retains some blessing from Christ, as we’ll read later on in the New Testament.
[00:04:48] Speaker C: Cool. Let’s get into it.
[00:04:50] Speaker B: All right. The beautiful thing about how John begins his record, we’ve read two genealogies already.
Matthew starts with Abraham and he’s trying to draw a powerful connection between Abraham and David and then connecting it with Christ. And then we’ve read from Luke, Luke’s a Gentile, he’s giving us a little bit different perspective. He goes all the way back to Adam. And he’s not leaving anyone out and he’s not adding anyone in. He’s just giving us a straight read up of the genealogy of Christ, John’s genealogy. So a lot of times we say there’s two genealogies, but I think John’s genealogy is kind of like, I don’t know, 1. Upping them is the way to put this. You can start with Abraham, you can start with Adam. But let me take you to where this really begins. Because Christ was not technically a son of Joseph.
And what we celebrate isn’t the fact that he’s a mortal son of Mary, it’s the fact that he was the son of God. And that’s where John takes this genealogy, is he was the son of God. And there is no other name on that list that even matters.
That’s his genealogy. And you’re going to see that with Christ when he says, before Abraham was. I am. And John embodies that as we get this introduction, and it’s such a powerful introduction. I’m just going to kind of read this and let’s start our discussion here talking about what this means.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
And he was, excuse me, in him was life. And the life was the light of men.
And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not. There was a man sent from God whose name was John. So then we get this introduction. Now, the same source of light that created Christ, also this light sends John into the world to prepare for this. So we’re going to get into the messenger and John’s role. But before we do, let’s talk about the Word and the Word.
It’s just interesting. It’s an interesting way of saying this.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God.
And the Word was God. So he was with God. But at the same time the Word was God.
And the same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him. Now I want to take a step back to the creation.
And there’s something that’s repeated over and over and over again in that creation.
And God said, right. And God said, let there be light. Okay, The Word of God said something and then what’s the result? And there was light.
So first he says it and then he sees it. And God saw the light, that it was good. And then he calls it.
He says, and then he sees, and then he’s going to call it again. And he calls the light day, and he calls it light, darkness. And he’s going to divide here and he’s going to do these things. And then God says, let the waters separate from the waters and let the dry land appear. And God says, let the creatures and let the seas bring forth life. And God says. And God says. And God says.
So one key element of creation was the word of God. You could argue the world was created by words.
So what is the power of words if. If you’re talking about the entire creation of this world spawns from. From simple words.
And another thing to think of before we even get to God uttering a single word. Verse 1 in Genesis, and darkness was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moved upon the waters. Now, that word for spirit, Ruach is wind, Spirit, but it’s also the breath, the wind of God.
So what’s the wind of God or the breath of God?
It’s as you’re exhaling and that wind is vibrating your vocal. You could argue that it’s not just the breath of God, but it’s the word of God upon the waters that’s causing the waters. And think about that, not just in context of the creation, but now fast forward to the New Testament, what we’re studying this year.
When they’re on the boat and Christ falls asleep and they say, master, carest thou not that we perish? And they wake him up and he says, peace be still. His words move upon the waters and calm the troubled sea. And so then again, you get this.
You get this power of the Word in calming the waters, the troubled waters.
And it doesn’t end there, because at the very end of creation, what does God do? He creates man. And what does he do with man?
He puts that same breath that he used to create the world with into the nostrils of the man. He breathes the breath of life into man.
And we are filled with the Spirit.
And the Spirit is the wind or the breath or the word of God. It’s the word of God that makes us alive. So you go back to these verses.
In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
It’s what quickens us, what makes us alive, that spirit that is also essential to us. And what happens if we stop breathing, if that breath leaves us as we also die? Let’s get into John the Baptist.
Let’s start in verse six. There was a man sent from God whose name was John. And it’s part of this introduction. And I think it’s significant that John’s included in this introduction. It’s a powerful introduction to who Christ was.
I think speaks volumes for him.
The same came for a witness to bear witness to the light that all men through him might believe. He was not the light, but was sent to bear witness of that light that was the true light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and. And his own received him not.
So even with those last two verses, John is sending the same message, if you will, that Matthew was talking about this Christ child that was not well received by his own. His own rejected him. And this message of. I don’t know, John has a different way of putting it, but he comes into this world that he made, and the world received him not.
But John included in the introduction to Christ, and not just here in this introduction, but when we read about Elizabeth and her miracle birth or miracle pregnancy and John being associated with the birth of Christ, it’s hard to disassociate the two. They’re very closely linked to each other. Where do we want to start?
[00:11:51] Speaker C: Here’s where I want to start.
[00:11:53] Speaker B: Let’s go with it.
[00:11:56] Speaker C: I’ll step up. Tell me. Tell me if this is not where you want to go.
[00:11:59] Speaker B: Come here, Nate.
[00:12:01] Speaker C: I want to talk about the prophet John the Baptist, and I want to talk about the connection that. That finally we kind of figured out talking through this last week after the show last week, I was telling Jason, I’m like, john the Baptist has been on my mind. As I’ve been reading through again, I’m trying desperately to figure this out, but I know that there’s something more to John the Baptist.
And as we started talking through it, we started talking about the preparatory miracle that kind of prepared people for the higher miracle. Right. We talked a lot about even people thinking because of what John was preaching, that he was the Christ. But he was just like, no, I can’t.
I’m not even worthy to touch the shoes of the. You know, of the person that’s going to be coming after me.
As we started kind of putting this together, the pattern really showed up, and it really revealed itself. And we started looking. It’s like, okay, well, what was John wearing when he was out in the wilderness, by the way? When he was out in the wilderness preaching and baptizing? Like, what was the clothes like? It made specific references to what he was wearing.
What is he teaching? Why were people offended by what he was teaching? But why did some people follow what he was teaching?
And we started putting this all together, and like you said earlier, it’s like, yes, it’s hard to see the rest of the stars when the sun is out, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that they are all stars, too, in their. In their respective solar systems. Right.
Some even, some significantly bigger than the sun that we see. But I’m just saying they’re small because of the distance. But when we really started putting this together, we were like, oh, my goodness, like, why on earth. Why on earth do we. Do we not give John the same, I don’t know, like. Like understanding and. And respect and. And shine that we do Moses and Elijah and. You know what I mean?
All of these other. All of these other amazing prophets throughout the Old Testament, what was he wearing out in the desert?
[00:14:17] Speaker B: Camel hair.
[00:14:19] Speaker C: Yes.
What is the significance of this?
[00:14:25] Speaker B: The hairy raiment is a legend that goes back all the way to Adam and Eve in the garden. When they were cast out, they were clothed with coats of skin with this priesthood, this clothing that the Lord made from a sacrifice, and it was handed down.
And it was very significant with Elijah.
[00:14:49] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:14:49] Speaker B: When he goes up and he throws the hairy raiment down to Elisha, that mantle he takes on him, and it becomes a significant part of the story when the kids come out and go up thy bald head. And not kids, but young men. Yeah.
And they are not saying bald. They are saying that you don’t. You. You don’t possess that. The hair, that hairy raiment, that authority, that mantle without hair is what they’re saying. You don’t.
If you’re so great, why don’t. Why don’t you throw the hair down? Why don’t you go up to heaven?
You don’t deserve that calling. That mantle, that.
And that sign has been associated with the prophets. And we see it with these wild men.
[00:15:33] Speaker C: Exactly right. And what do the prophets preach from the very beginning?
There’s a savior coming. Repent. There’s a Savior coming. Repent. There’s a Savior coming. Repent.
Look at John’s message.
I am not the Savior. There is a Savior coming. Repent.
This is where the Pharisees and the. And the scribes and Sadducees are given John the Baptist beef.
And he said, you know, we’re the sons of Abraham.
And John’s, like, God could take these rocks and. And raise them up as children of Abraham. You’re not, you’re not, you’re no more special than anybody else. And the fact that you’re not doing what you’re supposed to be doing, repent.
And it’s like when you just look at all of these patterns, what have we been told from the beginning of time, right? When we have all of these dispensations and we have all these prophets, is that, is that there will. That there will be a prophet that comes before there? You know what I mean?
[00:16:30] Speaker A: It’s like to prepare the way.
[00:16:31] Speaker C: It’s all of these things literally from the first prophets we start reading about and it finally just became, I feel like almost crystal clear. And then once we kind of really start to understand that you start looking at the restoration and the bringing back of the priesthood, it’s just all of these things finally kind of started making those connections which where it was just like oh my goodness, like John the Baptist wasn’t just a buddy sent here to prepare like people for Jesus.
God called a prophet, right?
[00:17:06] Speaker B: Yea. And you know what was kind of the eye opener for me, the big connection last week as we were talking about this was what got John killed and the Jews, they say had the prophets come in our time, we wouldn’t have executed them.
Right.
And Christ said, well here comes one greater and you are going to crucify him. But, but think John the Baptist is beheaded because he is censoring an inappropriate marriage.
And what was the message of the prophets that got them killed over and over and over again in the Old Testament? Was that Israel, you are a bride that has turned from her husband to marry someone else.
And because that message was ill received, a lot of the prophets were killed.
And so making that connection, John embodies all of these Old Testament prophets. He is going to the leader of the people and censoring them for taking a bride of someone else and pulling them away. Isn’t that what Ahab Ahaz does when he Jezebel and they. And he converts the Jews into worshiping BAAL and turning them away from the Lord. And so the prophet comes and says this is wrong. And so the prophet seeks. So when we’re talking about all the prophets, the one that really stands out in my mouth my mind is Elijah.
[00:18:40] Speaker C: That’s that one is a big one.
Mostly again because a lot of the visual stuff, but I just want to.
[00:18:45] Speaker A: Throw this out there.
[00:18:47] Speaker C: Look at all of the Book of Mormon prophets, look at Abinadi, look at Alma, look at. You know what I mean? It’s like their whole calling card was look at Samuel, the Lamanite.
[00:18:57] Speaker A: Look at.
[00:18:57] Speaker C: I’m just saying, like, look at all these prophets. It’s like, what are the calling cards? Like, not comforts of life.
Like, again, the Harry. Raymond, I understand, like, the symbolism and everything, too, but there’s a very practical thing about this as well, right? Is that he’s not dressed in super nice, comfortable.
You know what I mean?
[00:19:14] Speaker B: Like, it’s not fine linen.
[00:19:15] Speaker C: It’s not fine linen, and it’s coarse and it’s probably not very comfortable. And what’s he eating out there, by the way?
[00:19:19] Speaker B: Too honey and local.
[00:19:20] Speaker C: It’s not filet mignon.
[00:19:22] Speaker A: No, but it’s like, look, look.
[00:19:24] Speaker C: Start at the beginning of the Book of Mormon. It’s like, look at these prophets. It’s like they dealt with war. They dealt with being persecuted. They were all out. Look at. Look at Alma when Abinadi, who again is another perfect example, goes and tells the king what you and your priests are immoral.
Like, you claim to be. You know what I mean? It’s like you claim to be God’s representatives, but you’re disgusting, right? And he gets killed for it.
And Alma, where does he go to go out to start baptizing people out in the wilderness? You see what I mean? I guess I’m just saying, like, I don’t know why it took me so long to finally. And I mean, I do know why it’s a bummer that it took me so long to finally understand why the greatness of John the Baptist wasn’t ever fully, kind of like, culturally, you know. I don’t know. Do you see what I’m saying, though?
[00:20:17] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:20:17] Speaker C: Like, I think we sometimes overlook, well, his stature.
[00:20:21] Speaker A: Like, he’s.
[00:20:22] Speaker C: It’s like he’s Moses. He is Elijah. He. You know what I mean? It’s like, dude, he is Alma. He is Abinadi. He’s these guys, you know?
[00:20:30] Speaker B: And Christ himself maybe pays the greatest tribute to John ever when he says, of all the moms, there has never been born a greater prophet than John the Baptist. And you’re like, really?
[00:20:40] Speaker C: Jesus even told us. And I still didn’t get it.
Come on, man.
[00:20:45] Speaker B: And you’re like, just because he baptized Christ, you don’t really get much of his message. You don’t understand the role that he plays.
[00:20:51] Speaker C: That’s what we always associate him with, is just the baptism.
[00:20:55] Speaker B: And I think we don’t give enough credit to the apostles because part of this chapter is actually Christ going to start calling his 12.
And we look at him and say, oh, these were outcast publicans, or they’re up in the Galilee. They’re fishermen. Maybe they’re not the greatest people. And I think we don’t give them enough credit. We start looking at this.
A lot of these men were disciples of John, looking for that Messiah to come. They might not have been the most prepared as far as the world around them and Judaism and what you would expect, but they were very prepared spiritually and looking for the Messiah and following the prophet at the time.
They were in tune with John, they listened to John, they followed John. Had they not, they might have missed the Messiah himself.
And the scripture that comes to my mind is Amos 3. 7. Surely the Lord God will not do anything. Say it. He revealeth his secret to his servants, the prophet. And you might look at it and say, well, the coming of Christ is so significant, you don’t need a prophet, right?
Maybe we skip a prophet this time because the Son of God is here.
[00:22:05] Speaker C: Well, we almost teach it like that. Like, remember when they. When you. You have to remember this when they were changing up. Come, follow me, right? And it’s like you draw the dispensations, right? And you’re drawing Moses and Abraham, Elijah, and you’re drawing all these people. Nobody ever draws John the Baptist.
Like, we never put that marker by him. But it’s like, why? It’s like, well, then Jesus came and he was the greatest prophet of all time. It’s like, that’s true.
But we forgot somebody right there.
[00:22:33] Speaker B: And the Lord didn’t do anything except he did call a prophet first. And John the Baptist was the forerunner, the prophet that was called for that dispensation to reveal the coming of the Son of man, to reveal the birth of the Messiah.
[00:22:48] Speaker C: And then if you do want to look at the baptism, which is some language that I was reading this morning, that kind of really changed me. And it’s something again that I’m.
It’s not a fully cooked thought yet, but I do want to throw it.
[00:23:01] Speaker A: Out there to you.
[00:23:02] Speaker C: Is that. Is that. Not only that, but then Jesus himself goes to that prophet and says, you know, I need you to baptize me.
And John says, what are you talking about? You should be the one baptizing me. And Christ says, no, it is important that together that it’s. It’s upon us to fulfill all righteousness, man. That got me thinking.
That got me thinking, man, because, like, I’m going to throw it out there. I’m going to throw it out there. It’s not a fully cooked Idea yet, but we’re going to see.
[00:23:39] Speaker B: But you got to throw it out there in a question. Nate, what’s the question you asked me today?
[00:23:44] Speaker C: The question I asked today is we know what we are without God and that’s nothing, right?
Like for us, if we, if for what we believe, if we look out, there we go, if there was no God, we would never exist. We wouldn’t have this planet. All of those things that we believe all tie back to a basic concept of without God we are nothing.
But then my question is, but what is God without all of us?
And I don’t know the answer to that yet, but I’m thinking about it.
But when I read this scripture, that’s the question that came to my mind is when Jesus says, no, you’re right, I’ll just baptize myself. No, he didn’t say that. He went to the prophet and said, it is upon us together, we need to do this to fulfill all righteousness. And it really just got my brain thinking about the idea and the concept of the constant co creation with God every day, the new life and the new birth, all of the things that we do inside of our religion, in our church. But not only that, but any of the creation powers that we have as humans are all still at its core a co creative process with God or his power, you know, and, and I, I look at this in like my art and in art around me and, and the link of something coming out of nothing, right? Something being born as an idea and then turning into something tangible. And that is as, as godlike as it gets, right?
[00:25:36] Speaker A: The.
[00:25:36] Speaker C: Just the creation.
And so this is again where, where I’m, I’m not quite there yet, but I definitely, I don’t, I don’t mind throwing it out there because again, I have no doubt that our listeners are going to probably come up with a way better palette of answers for this. But I do, that’s the question though is what is God without us?
[00:26:03] Speaker B: I want to take us a step back now.
Having explored John, having explored what is God without us, and having talked about Christ, going back to the beginning of John, in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God. And the Word was made in the flesh. And it talks about the light and then it also talks about John the Baptist. But I want you to realize that there’s one more creation that’s mentioned that we didn’t mention.
So going back John chapter 1 and verse 12, but as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name, which were born not of blood, nor of the will of flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.
Not only was the Word made flesh, but flesh was also able to be made of God, to be made the sons of God.
Christ was born so that we could be born of God. He was born of man so that man could be born of God. And this creation means nothing if we’re not born of God.
This creation isn’t of his own.
You need John the Baptist, you need a prophet to come in and tell the people where to go that they might find life. And you need the people to come in and find life and listen and to believe. And that is the message from Genesis to the book of Revelation to any prophet of any dispensation is, I will call a prophet.
He will point you to me. You will come to me and I will make you, I will bring you back to God. I will save you. It’s the message of salvation.
It’s all encompassed in here.
[00:28:03] Speaker C: It’s good, I hope some thought provoking questions. I know for me at least, I’ve been trying to keep a bunch of way better notes as I kind of try to think through these things.
Just I, I, I try to you know, have hopefully a little bit deeper understanding because I know that it, it helps anchor a lot of my faith and testimony as, as more and more of these kind of profound connections are made.
You know, I, I would hope that, I would hope that again, it doesn’t seem like just a frivolous thought exercise, but if it does, then don’t worry about it. But if any of you have again have any thoughts or comments on this, please hit.
You know, we would love to go through them kind of with you.
You had a, I guess you maybe want to talk about that next week. You did have a pretty profound thought about the role of John, even preaching to people and then, and then his apostles peeling off and going with Christ.
You had a pretty great thought. Are you trying to save that for next week?
[00:29:08] Speaker B: No, no, no, let’s, let’s get there. We still have a little bit to hit right, right in here.
[00:29:13] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:29:15] Speaker C: I don’t want to rush you.
[00:29:16] Speaker B: Okay. So testimonies are a very powerful thing and we do get the witness in this chapter. It’s significant because we get to hear firsthand testimonies and very powerful testimonies at that. One is obviously when John baptizes Christ, you hear the Voice of God the Father saying, this is my beloved Son. And the Spirit descends the like a dove.
And I love the imagery there, even with dove like Jonah. And this idea, this concept of a dove associated with the flood. Right. And with Jonah going down into the well and almost this death associated with this role and this idea that baptism is a symbol of death and him going into the water. But because he went into the water and he resurrected and came up out of the water and lived again, that’s what makes this work.
It’s a very powerful image with this. But this is a firsthand testimony. And I’m just going to read this right after verse 32. And John Bare record saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove and it bowed upon him.
And a lot of times the scriptures are he and they and this. But to get this firsthand, John saying, I, I saw the Spirit and it keeps going.
And I knew him not. But he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descend. And remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. And I saw and bear record that this is the Son of God.
What a powerful testimony.
Again, the next day after John stood and two of his disciples and looking upon Jesus as he walketh, he saith behold the Lamb of God.
So John’s bearing a powerful witness. And two of his disciples see this verse 37. And the two disciples heard him speak and they followed Jesus.
So who are these two disciples?
Let’s look at it. Verse 41. Of the two which heard John speak and followed him was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother. He first goes to his brother Simon and saith unto him, we have found the Messiah. So it tells us who the first one is, but the second one remains dark.
Do you know who the second disciple of John was that ran off to go find this Christ?
And he heard John bear witness. He heard the account and now he’s going with the other one who’s Simon’s brother? Who. Who’s the other disciple?
[00:32:04] Speaker A: James?
[00:32:05] Speaker B: It’s actually John.
[00:32:08] Speaker A: I didn’t want it to be John because I felt like it was too obvious. So I took a shot.
[00:32:11] Speaker B: Yeah. John is writing about himself, but he’s not putting himself in here. And he does this often. He’ll say the Beloved One. Yes.
[00:32:19] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I mean, I know he likes to refer himself to nicknames of, like the one that Jesus loved.
[00:32:24] Speaker B: And it’s kind of interesting because you get a little bit of his personality here. I don’t know that John was a very great orator and he doesn’t like taking a lot of credit or maybe.
[00:32:37] Speaker A: I don’t know if I’m going that far, but okay.
[00:32:43] Speaker B: He’S interesting. Yeah.
[00:32:45] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:32:46] Speaker B: And so when John’s writing about this and telling what happened, it’s because John was there.
He’s not getting this second hand information, third hand information. He’s not making this up. He’s not getting it because this is what Mary told him. John was there and it made a big impression. So Nate, when you said, you know, talking about some of these apostles coming from John the Baptist, John comes from here, okay. And Peter’s brother comes here and talks to Peter and gets him in here and you start looking at these early 12 apostles and something that’s interesting is how many of them are family and how many of them are friends of the family. And it’s a very small, tight knit circle and you have a couple of them that are all related and this one was actually working with that one and they’re all related. So John, his brother is James and. Right. Those guys become the Sons of Thunder.
[00:33:43] Speaker A: Sons of Thunder, baby.
[00:33:44] Speaker B: That’s it. Boanerges, right.
[00:33:46] Speaker A: I wish that they would have had a motorcycle club because that would have been a dope motorcycle club name.
[00:33:53] Speaker B: It’s interesting that that’s how this is because when I first read the Book of Mormon and I go into the front of it and they have the testimony of three witnesses and the testimony of 12 witnesses and you look at these guys and you are like, wait a minute, they are all brothers or they are all family. And you are like, how do you trust them if they are all just like family or friends?
It is the same pattern. You see the same thing happening again. The church starts off really in a very small instance where they are a tight knit society. They were family, they were prepared for this moment and they were disciples of John. And it’s just this transition to where the church is going to grow much larger than this to where you start getting apostles that are coming from very different parts of the world. Now you are going to have Gentiles that are coming in. You are going to see Paul starting to take it. It just shows the different levels of maturity as the church as it goes from a very small organization here in the Galilee to where it becomes a worldwide organization.
[00:34:49] Speaker A: Very similar to the restoration of the church.
[00:34:51] Speaker B: Very, very similar.
[00:34:53] Speaker A: A lot of kind of close knit family, you know, that kind of expanded from there.
[00:34:58] Speaker B: You can’t you can’t wait and try to pick and choose and worry so much. You just got to get that ball rolling with what you have and get started, and the rest will follow.
It’s interesting to see the progress of the church.
[00:35:12] Speaker A: Cool.
[00:35:14] Speaker B: We have our first introduction to Peter.
And. And Peter is a very interesting guy because he has four names at least. I don’t know, he gets known by a few names here. And you’ve heard this Simon. Right? And it’s Simon bar Jonah.
And we’ve already mentioned Jonah. And we see this right after the baptism. And here you have the sign of the dove.
And Peter, the son of.
So Simon is a Hebrew name, and it means hearing.
So here you have. He’s hearing, and he’s the son of the spirit, the dove. So what is he hearing? What is he listening to? He’s listening to the spirit.
And so even early on, you have this name that kind of connotes this idea of revelation.
He’s one that’s a product of the Spirit is listening, and he fosters that. And Christ takes him and says, I’m going to change your name from Simon to Cephas or to Peter. And one is the Greek and one is going to be the Hebrew. And the idea is it is the stone. And upon this stone. Yes. This rock. And what really is this rock? Christ is the rock upon which we build. Right. Christ is this rock. That’s either a stumbling block or the builder’s foundation.
And if Peter is the rock upon which he’s going to build. It’s not. The church isn’t built on Peter.
It’s built on the fact that Peter is the vessel for revelation. Revelation is the point. Christ is the rock. Peter is connected to that rock.
[00:36:53] Speaker A: Well, he’s revelation.
He’s the mouthpiece of God when Christ leaves.
[00:36:59] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:36:59] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:37:00] Speaker B: All right. I don’t know.
[00:37:02] Speaker A: It’s great. Just keep going. No, no, keep going.
[00:37:05] Speaker B: All right, last.
Are we at the wrap up?
[00:37:09] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:37:11] Speaker B: I just want to talk about the conversation between Nathanael and Christ, because to me, this is hilarious.
[00:37:19] Speaker A: Okay, wait, but we do need to talk about. We do need to talk about the symbolism, though, of when John.
When the. When the disciples left from John to go hang out with Jesus, and Jesus is like, come and hang out in my house. Is that next week?
[00:37:34] Speaker B: Shoot. Yeah, we need to talk about that, too.
[00:37:36] Speaker A: Is that this week or next week?
[00:37:37] Speaker B: That’s this week.
[00:37:37] Speaker A: Okay, well, then we got to talk about that first, and then we can talk about whatever Nate’s saying.
[00:37:42] Speaker B: Okay.
I do think it’s Interesting. It’s weird. So the disciples that leave John, because John bear witness that this is the.
[00:37:52] Speaker A: Lamb of God because he’s doing his job as the prophet.
[00:37:55] Speaker B: Did he bear witness that he’s the Lamb of God? Verse 36. And he looketh upon Jesus as he walked. He saith, behold the Lamb of God.
[00:38:02] Speaker A: So even that he’s a prophet, man.
[00:38:05] Speaker B: He’s a prophet. He’s the prophet, man.
[00:38:06] Speaker A: What is he prophesying of what all prophets do?
[00:38:12] Speaker B: If he’s saying that Christ is the Lamb of God, then he means that that’s God’s sacrifice, that that lamb is going to die. He is prophesying not just this is Christ the Messiah, but this guy is going to die. Something that the disciples had a hard time with. And John the Baptist saw early on as a prophet. As a prophet. And so these two men. So verse 37. And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus. And Jesus turned and saw them following and saith unto them, what seek ye? And they said unto him, rabbi, which is to say, being interpreted, master, where dwellest thou? That’s the weirdest question ever, isn’t it?
[00:38:48] Speaker A: Oh, man.
[00:38:49] Speaker C: Yeah, there’s.
[00:38:50] Speaker A: There’s a lot of depth to that question, actually. But continue.
[00:38:54] Speaker B: Well, it’s just if I was a disciple of a man in the wilderness, eating honey and locusts, dressed in camel hair, baptizing people, and he says, this is the Messiah, and I’m following and stalking this Messiah like a paparazzi, and he turns and says, what are you after?
I think my question would be like, are you the Messiah?
[00:39:15] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:39:16] Speaker B: Is this crazy man in the wilderness? Right. Are you the son of God? Are you?
[00:39:20] Speaker A: We’re asking that, though.
Maybe that was. Maybe that’s the thing is because we read later on, right. About how a prophet is never accepted in their hometown, right? And they’re. Where they’re from is like, I actually do think that maybe in a roundabout sort of way, that is kind of what they were getting at. Like, where are you at?
[00:39:38] Speaker C: Where are you from?
[00:39:39] Speaker B: Where do you.
[00:39:39] Speaker A: Where do you live? Seriously?
Continue.
[00:39:43] Speaker B: Oh, I think.
I think I like where you’re going, Nate.
[00:39:46] Speaker A: I’m just saying, like, I think that you have to remember this is actual human beings, right?
And I think that there is something that is probably very hard for these people who have already been listening to John, who’s crushing it, by the way, because a lot of people are apparently listening to him and believing in him.
And then John, this person that you’re believing and listening to out in the wilderness says, okay, well this is who it is. It’s Jesus.
I have a hard time thinking that there wouldn’t be definitely a level of skepticism, and maybe not even straight up skepticism, but a want to know who this person is. And maybe it’s for scripture reasons, maybe.
[00:40:35] Speaker C: It’S because of the prophecies, or maybe.
[00:40:37] Speaker A: It’S just like the most kind of actual obvious question to ask somebody, like, where do you call home?
Where are you from?
[00:40:46] Speaker B: And Jesus response and he said unto them, come and see.
He doesn’t tell them, oh, actually this is my house over here, or let me tell you about my home.
[00:40:55] Speaker A: Because almost it’s like, if you say anywhere, you say it probably lessens the experience, right?
Like, if you’re like, I’m from Jerusalem, then they’re going to be like, sure, okay, well, everybody’s from Jerusalem. Whatever. What if he says, I’m from Nazareth? It’s like, okay, well, Nazareth at least has connection with the prophecy of where, you know, the Messiah being from. But do you see what I mean? It’s like, what if he were to say he’s from, I don’t know, Damascus, whatever, I don’t know.
It’s like you’re almost setting it up for them just to be like dismissive. Let’s continue.
[00:41:29] Speaker B: So he says, come and see. And they came and saw where he dwelt and abode with him that day. For it was about the 10th hour.
And this obviously has an impression on them coming and staying with him in his house for the evening.
Because the next day, that’s when we get the identity of one of them. One of the two which had heard John speak and followed him was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother. And he findeth his own brother Simon and saith unto him, we have found the Messiah which is being interpreted the Christ. And that’s probably something important to mention, by the way, I don’t know if we’ve mentioned it or not, that Messiah is the Hebrew word for Christ.
Christ is the Greek word for Messiah.
In both instances, it means the anointed.
So when you say Jesus, that’s the Oshea is salvation, and then Christ is the anointed salvation. This is the anointed way by which you obtain salvation. We have found the anointed one.
So just abiding that one night.
Now, Peter’s brother knows that this is the Lamb of God, that this is that John was telling the truth.
[00:42:48] Speaker A: What’s the symbolism of. What is the symbolism of these men going and staying with Christ in his house?
[00:42:56] Speaker B: I can’t help but look at this and see the temple.
[00:43:00] Speaker C: I agree.
[00:43:01] Speaker B: Because this is where the Lord dwells.
And that’s an invitation. Just like he says, come, follow me, come and see where I live. Because this is also your home. Come and abide with me.
And it’s interesting. We sing the song like Abide with me.
And sometimes we’re inviting Christ to come live with us. But really the invitation is Christ is saying, no, come live with me. Come to my house.
And when you come to my house and fill my spirit, you will know. And maybe that goes back to what you’re saying. Nate, it’s more powerful than words, I can tell you.
[00:43:38] Speaker A: That’s my point.
[00:43:39] Speaker B: But come feel, come see.
[00:43:41] Speaker A: That’s the thing is by simply saying, by simply just telling them like, oh, well, here’s where I live or here’s where I’m from, that, that doesn’t accomplish anything other than introduce potential like dismissiveness.
But Christ knew that if they came and actually spent some time with them and again, were to abide with him for a time in his house, that they would, in that setting, be able to gain a testimony that’s powerful. I think that that’s, I think that that’s a really.
Yeah, I mean, I think that’s a great image and I think that’s a really great understanding of that scripture.
[00:44:18] Speaker B: So now they’re going to be disciples of Christ.
This is their conversion story.
And I want to get to Nathaniel here.
[00:44:28] Speaker A: Okay, we can get to Nathaniel now. I just didn’t want to skip over that last thing because I really.
[00:44:33] Speaker B: I’m glad you remember.
[00:44:34] Speaker A: And by the way, I just think that again, of the things in this lesson that I, that, that I feel like there’s very obvious, good, clear takeaways for us.
Again, I know you’re really trying to get to this, but I want to just hammer this home.
[00:44:48] Speaker B: Let’s do it.
[00:44:49] Speaker A: Is that is in our ever renewed process of conversion, man, Jesus has already given us the example of how to do it.
And I having various times in my life that have been more regular at a temple and less regular in other times of my life.
The unbelievably life changing and profound experiences that I experience, but not only in the temple, but at church too, because that’s also the house of the Lord.
And I know we’re supposed to make our homes the house of the Lord. And I know our bodies are supposed to be temples and therefore houses of the Lord. And in all of those, you know, in all of those symbols I get it. But physically, because there’s a level of sacrifice of your time and of your schedule and of those various things that it takes to find time to go to the temple or to go to church.
And I just. I want to say that there is a reason that Christ didn’t just say, yeah, well, there’s my house over there.
Oh, you see that temple over there? Yeah, that thing? That’s really pretty.
[00:45:57] Speaker C: Yeah, that’s.
[00:45:57] Speaker A: That’s where I live. And people go, oh, yeah, that’s a nice house. But instead saying, no, no, no, no. Come. Come in here with me. Come and be in here with me.
[00:46:05] Speaker B: Come experience.
[00:46:05] Speaker A: Come experience this with me. Because what I can give you inside of my home, what I can teach you, what I can help you feel, is going to be way more than what I could just tell you outside of it.
That’s what I wanted to say. That’s all.
[00:46:23] Speaker B: It’s good. It’s really good.
And you’ve inspired a lot of thoughts in me.
And one of which is for these disciples of John to hear their prophet testify that Jesus was the Savior. This man that they were following was testifying that he is the Son of God.
For them, it wasn’t quite enough.
Just because we’ve heard the prophet say something, or maybe we’ve heard our friends say something, or we sit there in testimony meeting, and we’ve heard people come up and stand up and testify to things that they know.
Just because they know it doesn’t mean that we do.
Just because they have that witness doesn’t mean that we’re convinced.
And for them, it wasn’t enough to just rely on what John said. Even though they loved him, even though they followed him, even though he was their prophet. For them, they had to figure it out. They had to go and follow him and become converted themselves. They needed to be able to say, I saw that he was the Son of man. And how do they get that experience?
And so for any of you out there who have heard us talk about this, or heard your parents talk about, or hear the prophet or hear in church, and you hear all these people saying, I know, I know, I know. But you say, how do I know? I don’t know.
Maybe this isn’t a bad answer. Come and see.
Go to the temple. And if you don’t have a temple recommend, you know that the temple has a sitting room right up there in the front for guests that are going there that don’t have recommends for wedding parties. You can go into the desk and just say, I’d like to sit in the temple for a minute and reflect and come and see what this is about, or visit the temple grounds and say, what about? This is special because it says right on the front of the building, holiness to the Lord, house of the Lord. This is his house. And you can come and see, and come and experience, just like these apostles did, sitting in the residence of the Lord and saying, do I feel the same?
[00:48:34] Speaker A: Thanks for letting us hang on that.
[00:48:35] Speaker B: For one more minute.
[00:48:36] Speaker A: I just. I felt like that’s a very, like, actual life applicable situation.
[00:48:42] Speaker B: I agree. Thanks for taking me back there.
[00:48:43] Speaker A: Okay, let’s get to Nathaniel. Finally.
[00:48:47] Speaker B: My bad.
[00:48:47] Speaker A: You would think that I would care about wanting to talk about Nathaniel more, but I’m just like, whatever.
[00:48:51] Speaker B: I love this exchange, and it’s fascinating that John records it in this level of detail.
And the first thing I love about this is when Philip finds peter. So verse 45.
Excuse me, Nathanael. Philip findeth Nathanael and saith unto him, we have found him, of whom Moses and the law and the prophets did write. Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph. And Nathanael said unto him, can there any good thing come out of Nazareth?
It’s a pretty negative response, and maybe it’s a little bit sarcastic and funny. Who knows? Philip’s response, though. Compare this to what we were just talking about. Philip saith unto him, come and see.
This is Christ’s response to the disciples, come and see. There’s something more than what words can convey. Come and feel it. Come and experience it.
So Nathanael comes, and Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him. And behold.
And saith to him, behold, an Israelite indeed in whom there is no guile.
And this response from Christ is almost a response to the mocking tone before, like, can anything good come out of Nazareth? Oh, look, an Israelite without any guile.
I don’t know if that’s how it’s intended, but we hope it is. But man, it just seems funny. And Nathanael saith unto him, how do you know me? Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, before that Philip came down, called thee, when thou was under the fig tree, I saw thee.
Now, that doesn’t seem like a super profound thing. Like, he could have been standing on the field and he saw him sitting under a tree. But it sparks a reaction from Nathanael when he says, nathanael answered and saith unto him, rabbi, thou art the Son of God. Thou art the King of Israel.
And so he now all of a sudden is professing his belief and his Testimony. Now he’s gained it just with this simple exchange.
And it’s hard to know, like, how did you know me? Oh, I saw you from a distance. Oh, that’s right. You know exactly who I am. Is this the same line of quick responses? What’s the right word for that?
[00:51:07] Speaker A: Like a little bit of the back and forth. A little bit like the kind of playful back and forth.
[00:51:11] Speaker B: Yeah, this little playful banter. Right.
Can anything good come out of Nazareth? I don’t know. Is this an Israelite without guile?
And they say, well, how do you know me? Well, I saw you sitting under a tree.
Doesn’t that tell me everything?
Oh, yeah. Well, you must be great then, if you can get all of that out of just seeing me sitting on the tree. You’ve got to be the Son of Heaven. And then Christ even tops it off one more. And says, because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree. Believest thou. That’s the reason why you believe I’m the Son of God?
Well, thou shalt see greater things than thee. And he said, just wait.
[00:51:45] Speaker A: That’s the answer. Wait till you see my next moves.
[00:51:48] Speaker B: And he saith unto him, verily, verily, I say unto you, hereafter, you shall see the heavens open and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man. And so now all of a sudden, that playful banter, I mean, it’s escalating. Each response builds and builds until you get to Christ saying, okay, like, I am the Son of God, and you will see angels coming, and takes it even one step further. So it’s an interesting exchange. And I don’t know if it is playful banter, because you can’t always get those context out of words.
And when I see him say, before Philip talked to you, I saw you under the tree.
What that reminds me of. And maybe behind all the levity, maybe within the parables and the mysteries, there is a layer of depth, their profoundness. Here Christ is saying, just like he said to the Jews, before Abraham was, I am before you were born. He looked up at the tree and this idea that this is the family line, the genealogy, and the roots extend down. Before you were born, I knew you.
And there’s that.
[00:52:52] Speaker A: Awesome. Okay, what are we talking about next week?
[00:52:55] Speaker B: Next week we’re talking a little bit more about the baptism of Christ from a couple different books.
[00:53:01] Speaker A: Do you love how we actually asked the question and you knew the answer this time? This is great.
It’s like the first time. But it’s funny because it’s like, well, it’s pretty much just what you’re talking about this week. But for whatever it’s worth, we do have some new angles that we’ve already kind of talked through for you for next week. So even though we are still going to be talking about John the Baptist, we have some fun kind of lanes that we want to take it down. So thank you again for listening. We really appreciate it. Thank you so much for those of you that have left reviews on the various podcasting sites. It has helped our numbers tremendously and it’s helped us reach a lot more people. So we thank you so much for that.
Thank you for all the comments. Please continue to give us your thoughts on things.
You can email us at hi@weeklydeepdive.com we do read everything that comes through. We try to respond to as much of it as possible. But do know that you guys have some really great insight on this stuff. Thank you for the comments on the website. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
All right, Jason, if that’s it for this week, then I guess until next week.
[00:54:06] Speaker B: See ya.
Outstanding!!!!! Wow! You blew my mind! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!